Bell's end?

[Ducky]

At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

It's funny that you say that because Paolo Jr. didn't actually play bass on any Sep records until Chaos AD, Kisser was the one who did.

Kisser has as much right to Seps' name as the Cavaleras.

That's old news about Paulo's bass tracks but Andreas didn't join until the second album. I'm not undervaluing his musical contribution to the band, and there is a good chance that they would have never made it beyond being a South American novelty if he didn't join, but as an intellectual property and as a brand name the Cavaleras should have it. They started the band and named it.

Subjective opinion here, but their first album is absolute tripe, borderline unlistenable, even. For me, no Kisser = no Sep and as Juggz says, the Cavaleras both voluntarily walked away from the band, so tough tiddys to them.

[Anton Arcane]

Yeah but by that logic, if Andreas and Paulo were to walk away then Derrick Green would have a legitimate right to keep releasing music under the Sepultura name. An absurd idea I know but that's where that reasoning leads.

[Juggz]

Napalm Death seem to be doing ok, no?

[Carnage]

Bell was there from the start, he'd have as much right to the name as Cazares or Herrera, surely.

[Juggz]

He did, but he had to sell his right to it and Cazares bought it.

[Wiseblood]

People here seem to miss that lads like Bell and Dave Lombardo would have agreed to their terms and conditions and people like Max Cavalera made the decision to step away. For whatever reason they ended up losing or selling their rights but thats just business.
And similarly people like Olde Wolbers and Kisser had stakes in their bands by agreement with all parties at the time. Being in a band since day one doesn't afford you some supreme ownership rights. These are businesses! Do any of ye work for a company where the odd time the old plant manager swans in for a crack at the whip again? Didn't think so.

In the Fear Factory case, Herrera and Olde Wolbers sued because the contract arrangement they were in (also agreed with Bell and possibly Cazares) was breached and had every right to fight for it.

Remember when Dave Lombardo took to social media to cry about his salary.... the salary outlined in the contract he signed? He should have negotiated better when he was coming back.

[Carnage]

He did, but he had to sell his right to it and Cazares bought it.

Yeah, I knew that. Just speaking generally, before legal proceedings kicked in.

[Ducky]

Yeah but by that logic, if Andreas and Paulo were to walk away then Derrick Green would have a legitimate right to keep releasing music under the Sepultura name. An absurd idea I know but that's where that reasoning leads.

Well he's been the front man of the band for almost a quarter of a century (far longer than Max has), so while I probably wouldn't be interested in it, he's earned the right to it for sure.

[Trev]

Dino said to just look it up online for all the details, only stuff I could find was a few reports from October last year. Guessing there's been a lot of things changed since that point

[Kunt 4 Life]

Sure Thinn Lizzy carried on without founding members, didn't they?

[The Butcher]

Glad I caught the Demanufacture reunion when it rolled around.

Same, great gig in fairness.

This whole thing is a clusterfuck.

[astfgyl]

I blame Olde Wolbers for the whole thing and that is purely based on the fact that someone said he was responsible for most of Digimortal.

[Blackout]

With Lombardo it's a real head scratcher as to why he agreed such a low salary in the first place. My thinking is Kerry and co probably told him they had Bostaph now so agree to this contract or you can fuck off.

[Anton Arcane]

I remember Greg Christian falling out with Testament for similar reasons. I think they rejoin as a hired gun that gets paid per show or gets a salary and then they crack up when they realise how much more the other lads are making. When Dave Ellefson rejoined Megadeth he did it as a salaried member too.

[Wiseblood]

Dave Ellefson is on Jobbridge