Languages

[Pedrito]

Learning, teaching, interested in them, apps, interesting youtube stuff, even English language questions, doesn't matter lash it up here.

I have a question somebody probably can answer. In older forms of English did we ever use a construction similar to the following structure:

'If I were to buy a horse, it would be a brown one' but with using would or should instead of was?

Something that springs to mind immediately is the Pogues song 'If I should fall from grace with god..'

Basically, in Spanish we have what's called the subjunctive which is used quite regularly, and such a hash is made of teaching it that often students take ages to learn it.

I'm almost sure that in Oscar Wilde's writing or in something like Moby Dick we would sentences such as the following.

If I would row the boat to shore..
If I should speak openly..

I'm making a bit of a hash of it but I'd say some of you here would know what I'm getting at

[Pedrito]

Also, very nice Apps I'm using at the moment are Speakly and LingQ. I've tried many others and they've been poor.

Speakly has limited languages but a nice approach to things.

LingQ is based on ideas from language experts such as Krashen that believe 'comprehensible input' is the way forward, based on ideas a out how kids learn. Very nice indeed.

[Trev]

Finished the duolingo Irish course a while back. I was always fairly shite and dismissive of it in school, the usual "what's the point in learning that?" bollocks. Still though, a fair amount was really familiar so something must've sunk in, but I found the app itself to be fairly limited outside of learning phrases and vocabulary

Had a look at a few other ones but none of them have an Irish section

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

A subjunctive mood exists in English, but occurs less frequently than in the Roman languages (the ones I know at least a bit of anyway) and also the change of verb form is more subtle, easier to miss.

"It is imperative that he improve his Spanish grammar," for example. "It is imperative that he improves" is also a correct form, these days anyway, but it doesn't quite carry the same, well, mood.

[Pedrito]

A subjunctive mood exists in English, but occurs less frequently than in the Roman languages (the ones I know at least a bit of anyway) and also the change of verb form is more subtle, easier to miss.

"It is imperative that he improve his Spanish grammar," for example. "It is imperative that he improves" is also a correct form, these days anyway, but it doesn't quite carry the same, well, mood.

Very nice example. I can't help but feel there is a  even more obvious example that would have been used in the past in posh boarding school up and down England. I'll keep looking but cheers!

[Emphyrio]

'If I were to buy a horse,

Why is it, If I were to buy a horse, not if I was...

[Pedrito]

'If I were to buy a horse,

Why is it, If I were to buy a horse, not if I was...

The subjunctive mood it's called is used there. It's far more apparent in Spanish for example..you recognise it immediately. In English we put a 'past tense' on it which just confuses the fuck out of everyone. Any other word apart from were or was would have worked fine. It's like saying 'If I somehow would be you, I would buy a Ferrari' or some shite like that 

Google: Why do you use IF I WERE and not IF I WAS? The reason we use WERE instead of WAS is because the sentence is in the SUBJUNCTIVE mood which is used for hypothetical situations. This is a condition which is contrary to fact or reality (the fact is, I am NOT you).

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Bringing in the aul Gaeilge, in "go raibh maith agat," the "raibh" (which, just like "were", also appears to be a past tense form) is a subjunctive, grammatically equivalent to "sea" in Spanish.

[Emphyrio]

I'd claim that my ignorance is due to Gaeilge being my first language but then I could be asked to explain the Modh Coinníolach!

[astfgyl]

I dunno about much of the technicalities mentioned here but all my kids went to or are in a gaelscoil and I've picked up some Irish as a result and I'm sorry I didn't know how to enjoy it when I was younger. Trying to speak the basics at home with the lads and they fluent really highlights it.

Going to try use it more often. A bit jealous of ye multilinguals but one thing at a time..

[Pedrito]

Anyone can learn a language. It takes a bit of time is all. People get upset about Irish but if we look at the way it was taught and really the lack of actual time we spent actually practicing it in school, it was far from ideal. I'm sure it has come on a lot.

Something that I notice people saying a lot is 'dia dhuit a chairde'. Now my Irish is gone to hell but it should be Día d(h)aíobh a chairde because chairde is plural. For some reason I think there should be a h on daoibh there..open to correction

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29144631/Difference-between-dia-duit-and-dia-daoibh

[astfgyl]

I thought there was a d there as well. Just asked the daughter she says there is.

The main problem I think back in the day was that the Irish wasn't spoken as much as written. My lads do the maths in it and all and they just take it for granted

[Pedrito]

Yep it's just amazing. Once you have 2 languages I think the world's your oyster. You crack the code in a way. The problem was we though it interfered in the past when the opposite has 'largely' been shown to be the case.

[Born of Fire]

I do a bit of Spanish on and off on DuoLingo. It's grand for getting basic sentences and vocabulary in. I find Coffee Break Spanish on Spotify to be good. Yer man is easy to follow despite the Scottish accent. It's a huge advantage if you can chat with a native speaker. The missus is South American and I've picked up more from listening to her than I have from DuoLingo. Granted a lot of that is swearing but sure that's the best part of languages! 

I was decent enough at Irish and German back in secondary but had no enthusiasm for them at the time. Largely forgotten both now but still occasionally end up saying something from either of those languages when trying to think of something in Spanish so I'm sure with practice I could bring the levels up again.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Streaming services with foreign language tv shows that allow you to watch with subtitles in the native language are a proper godsend. Ten years ago, I used to spend hours trying to find French subtitles for French movies, etc., but now that I'm trying to improve my very limited Spanish in order to have any level of conversation with herself's folks, there's no shortage of shite to watch, online dictionary open in a tab, and off you go (once you have the basics down with some Duolingo or whatever type platform first).