Theories of the conspiratorial kind

[Kunt 4 Life]

There was a good documentary called JFK the secret killer or something that put forward the theory (using the Warren report) that the second shot that blew Kennedy's head off was actually a misfire from one of the agents in the car behind who had all been drinking the night before. JFKs brain had been taken away before the autopsy because according to the FBI the family wanted it...hmmm.

The thing that I do like about that theory that does bring a little tear to my eye is, if true, that guy made a really big fuck up but his work colleaguess all worked like bastards and  helped to cover it up.

Fucking up at work..uh oh
Mates who got your back... priceless

[astfgyl]

I think the geoengineering thing is much more likely

I think the pressurised, hot exhaust gas spewed into very cold air thing is even more likely than that 

Well played!

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Isn't the persistence of contrails mainly a function of altitude? I live near enough an airport (20 minute drive) and essentially all the contrails I see are the kind that disappear within a few minutes; I'm actually looking out my office window at some disappearing right now. They do contribute to the environmental impact of air flight, and I think one of the suggestions that has been offered is actually to have planes fly slightly lower, to find a good balance height between the benefits of high altitude flight and the negative side-effects of that (presuming, as I perhaps disappointingly do, that contrails and their openly discussed negative effects are side-effects and not effects by design).

[astfgyl]

There was a good documentary called JFK the secret killer or something that put forward the theory (using the Warren report) that the second shot that blew Kennedy's head off was actually a misfire from one of the agents in the car behind who had all been drinking the night before. JFKs brain had been taken away before the autopsy because according to the FBI the family wanted it...hmmm.

The thing that I do like about that theory that does bring a little tear to my eye is, if true, that guy made a really big fuck up but his work colleaguess all worked like bastards and  helped to cover it up.

Fucking up at work..uh oh
Mates who got your back... priceless

Can't remember where I saw it, but I was reading something which proposed that George Bush senior was the orchestrator of that assassination. Maybe not reading actually, I think it was the Bright Insight channel on youtube where I came across that one. There are so many theories regarding the how and why of that one, it's hard to keep up with them all.

The Kurt Cobain didn't shoot himself is another one that has been doing the rounds over the years, but I haven't seen anything convincing about it. I suppose that doesn't really count though as it's more of a whodunnit than a cover up thing. I think he did it himself anyway.

[astfgyl]

Isn't the persistence of contrails mainly a function of altitude? I live near enough an airport (20 minute drive) and essentially all the contrails I see are the kind that disappear within a few minutes; I'm actually looking out my office window at some disappearing right now. They do contribute to the environmental impact of air flight, and I think one of the suggestions that has been offered is actually to have planes fly slightly lower, to find a good balance height between the benefits of high altitude flight and the negative side-effects of that (presuming, as I perhaps disappointingly do, that contrails and their openly discussed negative effects are side-effects and not effects by design).

From the NASA stuff I was reading there, it seems altitude is the deciding factor in them forming at all, but I don't know if it comes into how persistent they are or are not.

How I arrived at my suspicion of the trails was a few years ago, having noticed them become more frequent and more persistent, I came across an article in National Geographic or New Scientist about geoengineering, and the way it was described in the article as a proposed solution to climate change was extremely fitting for what I was looking at anyway. Then I looked it up a bit on the internet and of course the theories were wild and self defeating in their ridiculousness and the term chemtrails had been coined and the tinfoil hat label attached by then, so I feel that the whole thing was sort of ridiculed and forgotten about and accepted as if it has always been so commonplace as a result of the sort of person who latched onto the idea.

So that's my view on it, that it ties in nicely with the climate solutions proposed publicly nowadays and I suspect that it has going on for quite a while under the research tag, and we will probably see an official announcement of such a program in the near future. Of course, because I can always be wrong about these things, I have an alternate idea going that it's a saturation thing, due to whatever is going on in the upper atmosphere, and the trails no longer dissipate as they used to. So in that respect, it could indeed be a side effect, and not at all by design as you say.

I still think there is something fishy about it though.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Also, if you want to compare to pictures from the past, the most significant thing that has changed over time with regards to flight travel is the sheer amount of it. Cast your eyes left towards the 80s here and you're talking, what, six times less flights?


So with six times more flights, you should expect six times more of all kinds of contrails, added to which you've conditioned yourself in more recent life to pay more attention to them when they persist. I don't know what the specific increase of air travel over Ireland since the 80s is, but if there's a global average, I wouldn't be surprised if we're above it, since we weren't exactly flowing with cash back then, nor had airline deregulation and the budget airline craze (which we played a large part in) kicked off.

None of that exactly disproves anything, but they are factors of striking magnitude that you haven't mentioned/accounted for.

[Wiseblood]

Whatever the fuck it was they pumped out over Germany certainly did make them chill out somewhat 

[Trev]

I found it equally amazing during lock down, where air traffic was operating at about one tenth of its' usual amount, that the amount of trails in the sky remained unchanged. But as I said to the other fella, don't mind what you can see with your own two eyes, just google the answer to try refute what you think I'm saying...

Nah there was an absolutely massive drop in the amount of trails. I live near enough to the airport and it was very noticeable, I even had my four year old kid asking where the planes feathers (as she calls them) had all gone

[mugz]

...

[mugz]

...

[astfgyl]

Also, if you want to compare to pictures from the past, the most significant thing that has changed over time with regards to flight travel is the sheer amount of it. Cast your eyes left towards the 80s here and you're talking, what, six times less flights?


So with six times more flights, you should expect six times more of all kinds of contrails, added to which you've conditioned yourself in more recent life to pay more attention to them when they persist. I don't know what the specific increase of air travel over Ireland since the 80s is, but if there's a global average, I wouldn't be surprised if we're above it, since we weren't exactly flowing with cash back then, nor had airline deregulation and the budget airline craze (which we played a large part in) kicked off.

None of that exactly disproves anything, but they are factors of striking magnitude that you haven't mentioned/accounted for.

Good point that I indeed hadn't mentioned. Which brings me back to the saturation thing I was proposing a few posts ago, that maybe something's changed in the atmosphere as a whole because of the sheer volume of flights and keeps the contrails persistent, due to increased levels of idunno? I admit also that since I first took notice, I have indeed conditioned myself to noticing them, but then I think because they are so noticeable how has anyone become conditioned to not noticing them all the time?

Nah there was an absolutely massive drop in the amount of trails. I live near enough to the airport and it was very noticeable, I even had my four year old kid asking where the planes feathers (as she calls them) had all gone

I found in the first week or so that there was a noticeable lack of trails, too. Then after that, it seemed to just pick back up again as normal and the whole sky was gridded in as usual. It doesn't seem to be constant anyway, but it's really visible when it gets going. I'm in Tipp btw, not too close to any airport. Shannon is a little over an hour away, Cork a little bit more.

Another thing, I should have worded my OP differently because now I'm here going on for pages about this and I have no real desire to make anyone else believe it. I don't have proof and I'm loath to be lumped in with the "chemtrails poisoning us all" thing, which I don't believe either but looking at what I'm looking at all the time, I feel it isn't just nothing or the accepted narrative. I also only have observational evidence and a gut feeling which counts for fuck all, unless one happens to be already a bit suspect of the thing. I honestly expect a public program of this to be announced in the next couple of years.

[astfgyl]

There was a good documentary called JFK the secret killer or something that put forward the theory (using the Warren report) that the second shot that blew Kennedy's head off was actually a misfire from one of the agents in the car behind who had all been drinking the night before. JFKs brain had been taken away before the autopsy because according to the FBI the family wanted it...hmmm.

The thing that I do like about that theory that does bring a little tear to my eye is, if true, that guy made a really big fuck up but his work colleaguess all worked like bastards and  helped to cover it up.

Fucking up at work..uh oh
Mates who got your back... priceless

Can't remember where I saw it, but I was reading something which proposed that George Bush senior was the orchestrator of that assassination. Maybe not reading actually, I think it was the Bright Insight channel on youtube where I came across that one. There are so many theories regarding the how and why of that one, it's hard to keep up with them all.

The Kurt Cobain didn't shoot himself is another one that has been doing the rounds over the years, but I haven't seen anything convincing about it. I suppose that doesn't really count though as it's more of a whodunnit than a cover up thing. I think he did it himself anyway.

Look, I can lead you down the oath to where I am now worldview-wise, but you'll have to be comfortable abandoning stuff you thought was 'solid'. Also people who already know some of these 'truths' will a: mock you b: misdirect you.

I'll be thefirst to admit that I know nothing at all, but I can explain what they 'don't want' us to know, even if there are so many secrets that the ones they've allowed to flow out into common perception are basically are childrens stories, upsetting as they are.

One of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I know for certain is that I don't really know anything at all, so I'd be open to reading or watching pretty much anything. When I really think about it, I can find myself wondering if I exist at all. I actually watched a great BBC doc called "what is reality" a couple of years ago which set me off thinking a rake of mad shit for weeks about perception and if everything is only as experienced by the observer anyway, does anything actually have form or colour or anything. Also another great one BBC did about infinity really got me thinking about how paradoxical that concept is as well, that it simply must be and also cannot be in any way I can really grasp. The fact that physicists have been arguing about it for so long leads me to believe that no one else has much of a grasp on it either.

So yeah, if you have any good links fire them up.

[mugz]

...

[mugz]

There was a good documentary called JFK the secret killer or something that put forward the theory (using the Warren report) that the second shot that blew Kennedy's head off was actually a misfire from one of the agents in the car behind who had all been drinking the night before. JFKs brain had been taken away before the autopsy because according to the FBI the family wanted it...hmmm.

The thing that I do like about that theory that does bring a little tear to my eye is, if true, that guy made a really big fuck up but his work colleaguess all worked like bastards and  helped to cover it up.

Fucking up at work..uh oh
Mates who got your back... priceless

Can't remember where I saw it, but I was reading something which proposed that George Bush senior was the orchestrator of that assassination. Maybe not reading actually, I think it was the Bright Insight channel on youtube where I came across that one. There are so many theories regarding the how and why of that one, it's hard to keep up with them all.

The Kurt Cobain didn't shoot himself is another one that has been doing the rounds over the years, but I haven't seen anything convincing about it. I suppose that doesn't really count though as it's more of a whodunnit than a cover up thing. I think he did it himself anyway.

Look, I can lead you down the oath to where I am now worldview-wise, but you'll have to be comfortable abandoning stuff you thought was 'solid'. Also people who already know some of these 'truths' will a: mock you b: misdirect you.

I'll be thefirst to admit that I know nothing at all, but I can explain what they 'don't want' us to know, even if there are so many secrets that the ones they've allowed to flow out into common perception are basically are childrens stories, upsetting as they are.

One of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I know for certain is that I don't really know anything at all, so I'd be open to reading or watching pretty much anything. When I really think about it, I can find myself wondering if I exist at all. I actually watched a great BBC doc called "what is reality" a couple of years ago which set me off thinking a rake of mad shit for weeks about perception and if everything is only as experienced by the observer anyway, does anything actually have form or colour or anything. Also another great one BBC did about infinity really got me thinking about how paradoxical that concept is as well, that it simply must be and also cannot be in any way I can really grasp. The fact that physicists have been arguing about it for so long leads me to believe that no one else has much of a grasp on it either.

So yeah, if you have any good links fire them up.

was the infinity thing the one with Brian Cox... if so, everything about that was really evil. Brian Cox is 'unreliable'... ALL those types are kind of trying to destroy your sense of self. Dawkins, Cox, Kaku, Greene, Sagan, Feynman...but the details of how that works are upsetting, and I don't know who's shitting me along, and who genuinely doesn't know.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I heard Cox once state in a podcast that "data is just data" (implying that it can't lie) and he's since been firmly on the "enemies of deep thinking" list. (Data is as much conditioned on theory as theory is conditioned on data, is the truth he was intentionally obfuscating to the public mind. I'd go along with calling that a type of evil. Plus, he was talking about genetics, which he has no expertise in.)