The Donald vs Big Tech

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I'm not expecting anything. I think very few people care enough to cancel their precious subscriptions, and these companies know this, which is why they're throwing out such small tokens; because it makes them look great almost for free. But those throwing up their arms are only helping to spread the free advertising. Soon enough a channel will spring up to cater to the taboo/reap the benefits by playing the counter, and at worst we'll have a new The People versus Larry Flint on our hands. But as you said, nothing is done about porn, so there's no reason to believe any level of genuine state censorship is en route anywhere in the west

[Eoin McLove]

When the inevitable backlash comes from all of this cynical virtue signalling,  it'll be interesting to see which companies are left standing.  It's awful carry on.  Meaningless beyond words,  really.

[mugz]

You are right, and I don't believe any of the suits making these decisions give a fiddlers fart about it, and HR will run up a 'statement' later about such-and-such not being in line with the 'values' of the company.

You are also right about downloading, although I'm forbidden from doing that on the computer at home, so I do use Netflix and HBO, Amazon etc. I also don't care whether or not I can watch 'Gone with the Wind' as such, but it's the principal.

The troubling issue is where this is going to end, and that as there is little or no resistance to their demands,?why should they stop making more? That fucking DiBlasio renaming streets (plural!) Black Lives Matter Street? Hi, he can fuck off with that, it would have been unthinkable a few weeks ago. George Floyd was a career criminal who once held a gun to pregnant woman's belly. By all accounts not a good fella, none of which excuses his murder, but you'd swear it was the Dalai Lama who got choked to death. He's been given multiple quasi-state funerals, and he's now a martyr to the BLM cause, and they'll milk it as long as they are allowed to.

It's like Scotland in the 1630s and 40's, it's effectively a religion now, a cult. And the leaders over there are just greasing up their arseholes and saying 'come ahead'.

if you were looking carefully you'd see a gold coffin too small to hold a well built man of  6ft 7" height.

[astfgyl]

Right. So either act, or say nothing. Because if you make a lot of noise about "banning" (which isn't happening; from their point of view they're literally just discontinuing a product) but there's no mass walk away action, then you're actually and inadvertently contributing to what you're decrying.

That is a decent point. I give out shit about this sort of thing yet I still pay netflix the tenner a month, so who is the real asshole here?

[Pedrito]

I'm not expecting anything. I think very few people care enough to cancel their precious subscriptions, and these companies know this, which is why they're throwing out such small tokens; because it makes them look great almost for free. But those throwing up their arms are only helping to spread the free advertising. Soon enough a channel will spring up to cater to the taboo/reap the benefits by playing the counter, and at worst we'll have a new The People versus Larry Flint on our hands. But as you said, nothing is done about porn, so there's no reason to believe any level of genuine state censorship is en route anywhere in the west

Again, I agree. I would be less worried about the actual content itself, however. As you say, all of this stuff will be available online, you would imagine.

And here we get to what I suppose I´  m really talking about which is the implication for art and expression. This reinforcing of cancel culture, the idea that a company has the ability and right to, at the very least, imply that the content makers were being homophobic or racist or whatever. It´  s a slippery slope and in the last few years it has gone from something that was used sporadically to a daily occurrence. I go back to the Metoo movement..public trials and hangings of people´  s characters. And here we have more of it except this time it´  s in relation to race. Now, obviously nobody is being beaten up or physically hurt, but, with all the emphasis we have started to put on bullying and all that stuff in school, it is too easy to simply brush it off as something that someone will just get over. How do the makers of Little Britain feel tonight, how many people are effing them out of it online right now? Strange, strange stuff and almost impossible to defend yourself or regain your career once you are smeared in that way. So, I don´  t see it as quite as mild or passive an action or as easy a solution as just cancelling a subscription. It´  s dangerous, it has knock on effects.

Finally, I would add that your previous response is so influenced by Capitalism and the Free Market, that I did a double take on reading your username. Shame on you 

[mugz]

I'm not expecting anything. I think very few people care enough to cancel their precious subscriptions, and these companies know this, which is why they're throwing out such small tokens; because it makes them look great almost for free. But those throwing up their arms are only helping to spread the free advertising. Soon enough a channel will spring up to cater to the taboo/reap the benefits by playing the counter, and at worst we'll have a new The People versus Larry Flint on our hands. But as you said, nothing is done about porn, so there's no reason to believe any level of genuine state censorship is en route anywhere in the west

Again, I agree. I would be less worried about the actual content itself, however. As you say, all of this stuff will be available online, you would imagine.

And here we get to what I suppose I´  m really talking about which is the implication for art and expression. This reinforcing of cancel culture, the idea that a company has the ability and right to, at the very least, imply that the content makers were being homophobic or racist or whatever. It´  s a slippery slope and in the last few years it has gone from something that was used sporadically to a daily occurrence. I go back to the Metoo movement..public trials and hangings of people´  s characters. And here we have more of it except this time it´  s in relation to race. Now, obviously nobody is being beaten up or physically hurt, but, with all the emphasis we have started to put on bullying and all that stuff in school, it is too easy to simply brush it off as something that someone will just get over. How do the makers of Little Britain feel tonight, how many people are effing them out of it online right now? Strange, strange stuff and almost impossible to defend yourself or regain your career once you are smeared in that way. So, I don´  t see it as quite as mild or passive an action or as easy a solution as just cancelling a subscription. It´  s dangerous, it has knock on effects.

Finally, I would add that your previous response is so influenced by Capitalism and the Free Market, that I did a double take on reading your username. Shame on you 

all the content on the streaming services is built by AI already, it's just automatic culture

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Built by AI or not (if we're not there yet, it's coming), it's 99% product already. In other words, a tiny fraction of what we're talking about is "art".

[Eoin McLove]

Art has largely become a self indulgent, narcissistic exercise in saying absolutely nothing through stylised and impenetrable jargon. Hopefully when the kickback to this ultra progressive mindset comes we'll start to see a return to art with substance, or at least more of an emphasis from galleries in displaying work with actual merit.

I used to love going to galleries but I've become so bored by so much of what I see in them that my enthusiasm is all but spent.  There is great stuff being made, and you catch an occasional glimpse of it among the detritus,  but it's few and far between.

I went to art college and spent several years baffled and confused by what was going on there.  It's only in recent years I've understood why it was so difficult to get any sort of grip on what was happening around me at the time- I didn't understand the post-modern concepts that I was running up against.  I hated it in retrospect, but was too young and clueless (even moreso than now believe it or not) to even have any understanding of how to fight against it.

And to think,  all I had to do was take my cock out and it would have been considered art! And that's not just a commentary on how beautiful my cock is,  which it is as well. 

[The Butcher]

So we have governments/corporations jumping onboard the race question to both market themselves as squeaky clean as possible (with the benefit of data behind them knowing it's an easy win - Gone With The Wind is a great example of this from the corporate side of things) but more importantly it keeps the debate away from diving into the crux of the matter — the failures of neoliberal economics (poverty, unlivable wages, massive wealth inequality, poor schools, lack of development into community led projects, collapsing infrastructure etc etc) The US is suckered within a money-rotted political system which is totally incapable of offering sound leadership (in either party). Both sides are being manipulated by weakening the social fabric so that oligarchs can continue to consolidate their power. Part of the reason why we need to start breaking up/regulating big tech and to put them under the microscope more as society becomes further entwined into the digital landscape, we should not accept their "algorithms of fairness".

[mugz]

Art has largely become a self indulgent, narcissistic exercise in saying absolutely nothing through stylised and impenetrable jargon. Hopefully when the kickback to this ultra progressive mindset comes we'll start to see a return to art with substance, or at least more of an emphasis from galleries in displaying work with actual merit.

I used to love going to galleries but I've become so bored by so much of what I see on them that my enthusiasm is all but spent.  There is great stuff being made, and you catch an occasional glimpse of it among the detritus,  but it's few and far between.

I went to art college and spent several years baffled and confused by what was going on there.  It's only in recent years I've understood why it was so difficult to get any sort of grip on what was happening around me at the time- I didn't understand the post-modern concepts that I was running up against.  I hated it in retrospect, but was too young and clueless (even moreso than now believe it or not) to even have any understanding of how to fight against it.

And to think,  all I had to do was take my cock out and it would have been considered art! And that's not just a commentary on how beautiful my cock is,  which it is as well.

it is indeed, cheers for the photos

[Eoin McLove]

So we have governments/corporations jumping onboard the race question to both market themselves as squeaky clean as possible (with the benefit of data behind them knowing it's an easy win - Gone With The Wind is a great example of this from the corporate side of things) but more importantly it keeps the debate away from diving into the crux of the matter — the failures of neoliberal economics (poverty, unlivable wages, massive wealth inequality, poor schools, lack of development into community led projects, collapsing infrastructure etc etc) The US is suckered within a money-rotted political system which is totally incapable of offering sound leadership (in either party). Both sides are being manipulated by weakening the social fabric so that oligarchs can continue to consolidate their power. Part of the reason why we need to start breaking up/regulating big tech and to put them under the microscope more as society becomes further entwined into the digital landscape, we should not accept their "algorithms of fairness".

Yep, tax these billionaires who enigmatically swan through the world, not as mere citizens, but demigods.

[Emphyrio]

Again, I agree. I would be less worried about the actual content itself, however. As you say, all of this stuff will be available online, you would imagine.

And here we get to what I suppose I´  m really talking about which is the implication for art and expression. This reinforcing of cancel culture, the idea that a company has the ability and right to, at the very least, imply that the content makers were being homophobic or racist or whatever. It´  s a slippery slope and in the last few years it has gone from something that was used sporadically to a daily occurrence. I go back to the Metoo movement..public trials and hangings of people´  s characters. And here we have more of it except this time it´  s in relation to race. Now, obviously nobody is being beaten up or physically hurt, but, with all the emphasis we have started to put on bullying and all that stuff in school, it is too easy to simply brush it off as something that someone will just get over. How do the makers of Little Britain feel tonight, how many people are effing them out of it online right now? Strange, strange stuff and almost impossible to defend yourself or regain your career once you are smeared in that way. So, I don´  t see it as quite as mild or passive an action or as easy a solution as just cancelling a subscription. It´  s dangerous, it has knock on effects.

Pedro, we'll keep you around! You go into greater detail than I could and express my thoughts exactly the way I'd like to.

I remember on MI when the annual showing of Gone With the Wind in some town in America was cancelled cos of this issue and indeed Aul Shep said very similar to what he said here but along the lines that there was no reason to be getting worked up cos of something so irrelevant as it wasn't a mainstream concern. I said wait and see, and now it most certainly is a mainstream concern. Without getting into a back and forth again, Pedro encapsulates my views on the issue absolutely spot on. This censorship direction is exactly as expected and all the more frightening for it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If you like, okay, it's gone mainstream... but it's still being used as a distraction. Consumption is continuing good-o and HBO and Netflix and whoever else are discontinuing a product or two are banking on benefiting from it. The real problem with the streaming services is the real problem that was there with TV: they're full of intelligence destroying shit, designed in the most cynical manner possible, just as most TV has been since the 50s. Little Britain is the very blueprint for mass consumable comedy, with it's massive repetition, catchphrases, etc., etc. I'm not saying it should be censored, I'm saying the fact that it didn't sink into obscurity on its own merits is a reflection of how low the collective conscience has its bar set. And that bar is set. The population is set up to consume and it does that to perfection, getting distracted (this is what mugz has been repeating and that part is bang on the money) by all sorts of things that make individuals feel like they can control things, because they have a voice. But they consume and consume and as long as they keep doing that they can argue about whatever they like. They are being kept mentally dumb. Hicks saw it, Chomsky saw it, Debord saw it, Marx predicted it. Nothing else matters except to keep the machine turning; green washing, black washing, the corporations will do and say whatever they think will maximize sales. People rejoicing and people lamenting at the removal of something which was made as product from an outlet are both falling into the same trap. Here's what streaming services are all about, with more or less sugar per shit sandwich depending on what you watch, but the shit is almost invariably there, even in the shows that I switch off to (and I know that that is exactly what I'm doing most of the time I watch a TV show or a mainstream movie; switching off):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mgn-fXZRiM

[Emphyrio]

I'm only using Gone With the Wind as a symbol for the way I see censorship going. It makes no odds to me what gets "discontinued" as you call it. (That term I think is a bit disingenuous too but leaving that aside, and I agree with you in terms of TV being dumbed down etc. etc.) My point, and indeed worry, is that this is the start of more artistic expression, be that in music, literature, whatever, being censored in the future.

[Ollkiller]

Do you honestly believe Trump, Johnson or whomever (what have they censored, exactly?) you're referring to as THE CONSERVATIVES are comparable to this extremist madness? Lad, wake up! There's no defending this, except from ideologues like you, Don Lemon etc. Taking down films and TV Shows for being retrospectively offensive? Big Don has his faults, but he's not the witch finder general like these lunatics.

Read about Matthew Hopkins. That's what happens when maniacs aren't resisted.

I get where you're coming from but Trump and to a lesser extent Johnson are definitely comparable to this extremist madness. These nuts have got films banned but Trump and Johnson have cost thousands upon thousands of lives in the last few weeks by totally fucking up their response to Covid-19. Yes censorship is wrong, dying is worse.