The Donald vs Big Tech

[astfgyl]

Back to Trump, it's looking like the steering wheel grab was bullshit along with several other things like removing metal detectors and stuff

[Caomhaoin]

The January 6th thing, those mongs on the news over there comparing it to Pearl Harbour etc. Laughable nonsense.

As for the Trump stuff, they'd be forced to report real news if they hadn't got him to complain/make things up about.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Back to Trump, it's looking like the steering wheel grab was bullshit along with several other things like removing metal detectors and stuff

We'll have to wait and see who'll actually go on oath (not just say they're "prepared to") to testify against this account. For whatever reason, Trump seems to be running out of friends in his former closest circles, though he still has plenty outside of that.

[astfgyl]

That's a fair point, it means f all unless they get up and testify. The steering wheel thing sounded ridiculous from the off to me but we'll have to wait and see. The whole Jan 6 uproar is and was a load of shite is my gut feeling. I get it could possibly have turned out bad but it didn't apart from that Trump supporter who got shot and the media aren't exactly mourning her either. They should move on but I doubt they will anytime soon.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You've heard of Guy Fawkes, right? The gunpowder plot, yeah? That could possibly have turned out bad but it didn't (except for Guy himself). In terms of what counts as treason, insurrection, etc., the failed January 6th events are pretty comparable to the failed gunpowder plot... which happened four fucking centuries ago and we still haven't moved on from that.

[Caomhaoin]

Most people have no idea of the historical context of the gunpowder plot, outside of a rhyming couplet and fireworks in early November.

Attempting to assassinate the entire Stuart royal family and parliament is not comparable to what happened in Washington DC. To state otherwise is a symptom of brainwashing by media or simple ignorance.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Most people have no idea of the legal and political implications of January 6th either. That was sort of my point. We have a lot of people saying that "nothing happened" on January 6th who don't understand how serious a thing it is, in a so-called democracy, for the exiting president to A) claim his electoral loss was a charade, B) incite his supporters to storm the Capitol in protest, C) toss his supporters his former vice-president because Pence stopped playing along with Trump's tantrum. If these are true (recalling that A is not even contested, nor is it even an exhaustive list of Trump's bullshit, to which we could add conning his own supporters out of millions to "fund" his stolen vote campaign), then in the framework of a democracy, as opposed to a monarchy, I think it is comparable. Trump's actions and words following the election were an absolute "fuck you" to the central tenets of the US democratic system. Guy Fawkes probably even had more magnanimous motivation than Trump too, who really was (even if we disregard the latest testimonies) acting like the spoilt brat rich kid that he is for purely selfish reasons.

[Ollkiller]

I signed up during the american election to a republican mailing list just to see what they send out. The level of aggression in their emails is something to behold. "Why aren't you fighting for democracy" bullshit. And grifts. So much grifting.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That is more commitment to getting outside one's echo chamber than I would be up for, haha... that's really taking one for the team like 

[astfgyl]

Do any of ye lads think that the democrats are any better? You're deluded if you do.

Still reckon the Jan 6 was a load of nothing. Silly from Trump but that's about it.

[Caomhaoin]

Guy Fawkes was a Catholic 'hard-liner' who wanted to eliminate the solidly if not-that-pushed-either way Protestant James Stuart. Funny to think that the even more Romantic James Graham would try to keep his son on the throne, and the impeccably Catholic Bonnie Prince Charlie was his descendant, but that's by the by.

Regarding comparisons, the media you are consuming or trust is blowing it out of all proportion (darkest day in the history of the US blah blah), harping on and on about it in an attempt to reanimate the corpse of a story most people couldn't give a shit about. The other side are playing it down, clearly, but these spas comparing it to Pearl Harbour? 9/11? Ah yer messing now.

There's as much shite concocted about Trump as came out of his mouth, and while you made a few reasonable points, I still don't see the comparison to the Gunpowder Plot, as the latter was an attempt to annihilate the King, his family and the entire House of Commons. The Trump thing was nothing of the sort, and the minutiae  are still disputed.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Do any of ye lads think that the democrats are any better? You're deluded if you do.

It's helpful to know when to approach with a broad or a fine brush: This isn't a case of judging Republicans versus Democrats. It's a case of analyzing the details of a specific event which, as it happens, a certain group of identifiable Republicans were behind. It is true that no group of Democrats has ever been responsible for a similar act (i.e. inciting the storming of the Capitol), but no that doesn't mean the Democrats are "better". The issue isn't at that level of analysis. Back in the 70s, you can be guaranteed there were people trying to say similar things over Nixon and Watergate (clearly a closer comparison than Pearl Harbor or 9/11). Nixon resigned over a wiretap and aiding a break-in of the DNC. Trump refused democratic process, gratuitously deepening an aggressive nationwide civic schism, and incited a public storming of the Capitol. I guess there is some level of subjectivity involved, but the latter certainly seems a more egregious presidential crime to me.

My point about Guy Fawkes is that sometimes it's not the seriousness of what happens that matters, but the seriousness of what was being attempted. How far do you think Trump would have let/incited the rioters to go? Honestly now. At what point, had they not been stopped, would his personal presidential responsibility (lol!) have switched to trying to calm rather than further inflame the situation? This is what is to be determined and judged, not merely what actually happened. Fawkes attempted murder but failed. Do you think Trump was worried that his rioters might end up killing people? Honestly now...

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That we've gotten to the point where people don't think it's serious that the president of the greatest military power in the world tried to run off with the football because someone else was chosen to be captain... wtf is going on in your heads!?!? I wouldn't call it the darkest day in US democracy, no, but in my lifetime it is absolutely the most embarrassing and juvenile I've ever seen, and to my mind that is just as serious, because what is needed is maturity and wisdom. That doesn't mean I'm saying Obama or Clinton or Biden have either of those in any particular amount, but at least they didn't spend their time pissing on the very notions of them from a height.

[astfgyl]

I don't think Trump would have anticipated anyone getting murdered for the own goal it would have been. The broad stroke was about the republican mailing list and how hateful it was but they both play that game was the point there. I get the Guy Fawkes comparison and there's a good point in there and I know Trump was pressuring Pence at the time to do something. I reckon it was more to do with that than actually storming into anywhere as nobody could be so deluded as to think that'd work. I don't support Trump either, I'm trying to take an impassionate look at the clown show that is the US

[astfgyl]

Embarrassing and juvenile is a good description. It was certainly that.

Edit: I do think Biden is as bad as anything that was ever seen in my lifetime. He hasn't a clue what he's doing and I honestly don't think he's all there at all. Not a Trump endorsement.