The Donald vs Big Tech

[Caomhaoin]

It begs the question, if he truly believed his opinion was bullshit, therefore presumably with no belief in it, why bother to express it? I find it hard to believe a clearly intelligent homosexual like Murray would peddle opinions he believed to be essentially shite. What's the endgame? And why not express his true opinions, which would be what?

I've confused myself with my train of thought but I think you get me.

[Eoin McLove]

I think I get you.  Did you just come out?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I think I get you.  Did you just come out?

It begs the question, if he truly believed his opinion was bullshit, therefore presumably with no belief in it, why bother to express it?

I don't think he believes his position is bullshit; I think he knows some of his arguments are bullshit, but effective. I mean, people who made propaganda believed in their opinions, and their job was to create bullshit that would persuade others towards them. There's no incoherence there.

[Caomhaoin]

I think I get you.  Did you just come out?

I was hoping to get a rise from one of the soyboys by using the word 'homosexual' rather than 'chap' (what does his sexuality have to do with anything!!??) but I misjudged the attempt very badly indeed

[Eoin McLove]

Brainwashed by the far middle 

[Caomhaoin]

I think I get you.  Did you just come out?

It begs the question, if he truly believed his opinion was bullshit, therefore presumably with no belief in it, why bother to express it?

I don't think he believes his position is bullshit; I think he knows some of his arguments are bullshit, but effective. I mean, people who made propaganda believed in their opinions, and their job was to create bullshit that would persuade others towards them. There's no incoherence there.

Propaganda on behalf of whom though?

I wish my sausage fingers didn't keep ballsing up my attempts at using italics. They give a veneer of academia to your posts.

[Pedrito]

I think Chris is getting a touch of the Mugz here. It's some underlying factor that is a reflection of the game being rigged etc etc. It's the way BLM argue also and that's exactly what Murraybis talking about in the video. If it's 'the man' or 'the system' or the 'Uncle Toms' that are against you, that is an invisible enemy that cannot be touched and yet it's brought out again and again in arguments and debates in a bid to nullify opposing arguments. And while I 'get' the concepts of 'Uncle Tom' etc, the reality is that for a politician or for someone who is concerned about western culture like Douglas Muray, concepts are almost impossible to change, especially when the likes of BLM keep.changing their meaning. They are fluid, like gender is now.

A politician on the other hand has to deal in numbers and facts. If it could be shown in numbers that police were murdering blacks in numbers and stats that jumped off the page then ANY president, Donald Trump included would be able to sink their teeth into that. But so much of the dialogue is abstract, is conceptual. Murray deals in numbers and facts, he may having certain leanings, but at least he can back up what he argues.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I don't see what's complicated to understand or esoteric about the idea that someone occupied with persuading public opinion (Murray, in this instance) would knowingly engage in propaganda-like behavior. A politician has to deal in numbers and facts, sure, but those numbers can be invented and, say, printed on the side of a bus to be driven around the country; those who believe the narrative behind the fictional number will be persuaded. That's what politics is about, much more than "numbers and facts" in any truly empirical sense.

[Pedrito]

Absolutely not but what is Murray's agenda do you think?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Pro-Brexit, anti-Labour, pro-Trump... but what his agenda is is secondary to knowing that he has one, and one that it is his very bread and butter to advance! This is nothing like mugz; this is concrete stuff.

[Pedrito]

The first 2 probably and the third hmmm. They seem to get lumped in together. Are they agendas as such? Maybe..but something sinister? I'm not so sure. Certaintly certain elements in the media would have us think so.

The first one is a decision every British person had to make about Europe. The second is, again, a normal political leaning for millions of Brits. The third might be a way to sell books in the States.

You could easily pick any left wing person in the UK that follows Labour and apply the opposite 'agendas' to them.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I don't get why you're all fixated on the idea that I'm suggesting only conservatives have an agenda! I'm just saying that Murray not only has the power of his convictions, but literally makes his living off advancing certain agendas, so every "number" or "fact" he puts forward has to be interpreted in that regard. Nietzsche! Nietzsche!!

On Trump: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/28/uks-national-interest-trump-triumph/

[Pedrito]

Yeah I get ye. I understand that. Everything though? Maybe. He seems a little more nuanced than that but I could see how you might see it that way. I don't think it's necessarily all bad either. My earlier point being at least I know where he stands and I make my own mind up from there on out.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Okay, so to go back to his points on BLM; my conviction would be that he's more concerned with getting people to vote Trump than he is with anything even vaguely in the domain of minority civil rights, and his rhetoric of discrediting the movement with shallow if not false arguments (while there is no lack of valid but more nuanced ones) serves mainly to persuade rather than to get at any "truth". This seems clear from the attention he gives to one anecdotal case, from years ago, where things were not how they seemed. That's propaganda baby! And yes, Trevor Noah, John Oliver, etc., use loads of it too...but you'd spot that from a mile off, no problem. Murray's, ye've been arguing it doesn't exist for pages now. They're all at it, but our personal biases blind us only to half.

[Ollkiller]

So today Trump said if you voted by mail to go down and then try to vote in person. To test the system. Which is actually voter fraud. The Law and Order president right there. And Barr in a CNN interview said he was unaware of the state laws about the legality of voting twice. He's only the Attorney General. How do they not know basic shit like you can't vote twice.