So, we need to talk about the internet...

[Juggz]

There were only 13 posts before yours, including the original post. Did you read that? 

[Pedrito]

You'd have to wonder if our generation didn't go through as much of an upheaval as any generation in the past. At least we're somewhat aware of of what kids these days might be facing. I don't think my parents generation knew the impact that the likes of Commando, Rambo, Robocop, Pam Anderson's big diddies, Guns n Roses and all that jive was having on our innocent little minds. Or am I clutching at straws here?

[Giggles]

There were only 13 posts before yours, including the original post. Did you read that? 

Saving them for tomorrow's morning commute 

[ochoill]

As much as I agree that social media in general is fairly bleak, and can get behind a lot of what's said already, it can also be a useful tool for a few reasons.  As a simple example of this, I stripped out my facebook quite a lot, muted people, blocked pages, constantly reported shit I didn't want to deal with (certain ads usually), actually interacted with things I wanted on there, joined an absolutely disgraceful amount of groups, and let the algorithm figure it out from there.  If I open it now to browse, I am generally met with discussion about music and albums, music gear, pedal building, local gigs, and a couple of memes.  Some close friends posts get through but it's rare.  Is it perfect?  Nope, but it does more than close to what I want it for.  If it wasn't for how good the FB groups system is, I would have quit it already.  It's up to you to curate it to some degree.  Interacting with garbage on any site keeps garbage relevant.

Of course the fact that all these are set up purely to sell you something, to figure out your niche demographic and advertise directly to you, and all the other ramifications of that are truly awful.  The whole way it has changed how we behave and interact is completely fucked.  How we lap up any information presented to us on one of four sites rather than investigate anything a little further.  How it shuffles people into their own bubbles of praise and validation of people who share their exact ideas only, and allows each group to very easily make an effigy of 'them' in the next group over to abuse because it is on a larger scale rather than an individual one - mob mentality and all that.  But ye know this.

I know there are better examples of it being a tool but ye all know them and i'm preaching to ye talking about them so there's no need, i'll just fire my anecdote on top.

[The Butcher]

Tangentially related to that last point:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/may/13/naomi-klein-how-big-tech-plans-to-profit-from-coronavirus-pandemic

Tech like vultures....that Schmidt guy has a *bit* of a conflict of interest lol

[mugz]

Now you mention it, the proliferation of the online way of life as I see it is an experiential threat much more than any existential one but like all forms of technology, it isn't inherently bad. At the end of the day it is up to the end user to make the choices as to what they let it do to them. The existence of Facebook/Twitter etc and the fact that I have an account on there didn't make me start taking selfies or liking other people's, for example.

Also when I had a phone I found it rather addictive so I stopped using one. Now if somebody wants to call me, they ring my landline and if I'm home, grand  and if I'm not, tough shit to us both. It is extremely liberating but I had to make the choice to do it, to improve my own experience of living when I leave the house. It wasn't the phone in itself that was the problem, just the fact that I didn't have the discipline to leave it out of my hand.

when we  were younger men we could get away with the technology is just a tool/technology is neutral thing, but I never believed it. Everything in this world skews to the negative and technology contains that skew in its very essence; it's better to think of technology as less of an extension of its user or a reflection of its use, but more a sneaky invasive lifeform, parasitic, forcing bad chances in its host and the host's environment.

I kind of think it's too late now- there can never be people or societies in any way distinct from technology now. If you have kids now, what is life for them? A reality where we can't say what it is, where things move so fast that every 6 months is a new era, where young people binge on netflix shows made by algorithm... binge itself is a pretty strong word for describing leisure. I'll be glad to go, and to leave noone behind, sad as that is in some ways. it's already weird to see parents in their early to mid 40s struggling to understand fortnite or having to ration 'screen time', or kids being excited by getting a new phone for their birthday.

[mugz]

You'd have to wonder if our generation didn't go through as much of an upheaval as any generation in the past. At least we're somewhat aware of of what kids these days might be facing. I don't think my parents generation knew the impact that the likes of Commando, Rambo, Robocop, Pam Anderson's big diddies, Guns n Roses and all that jive was having on our innocent little minds. Or am I clutching at straws here?

when we went to the cinema we saw a film projected from a reel, just like the previous 4 generations; we read books, did a lot of stuff that was very 19th and 20th century. eventually that had to end, but if we're feeling alienated by how things are going inthis century, who the fuck is running the show? Th current age is way beyond the paygrade of Inda, Bertie, Martin, and even people you'd expect to be on this, politicians scientists philosophers in their 30s and 40s, they're all just spoofing about stuff which sort of doesn't exist anymore.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well, a technology destroying cataclysm can never be fully ruled out!

We can't be going the wrong way, since there is no destination built into life. We may be going in certain ways we feel are alien to our generation, and rather than being progress this may just be exploitation by corporations; but the sociologists and philosophers have been banging that very drum since the end of the 19th century; Nietzsche said of the telegraph that we had heard its hammering but had no idea what it would mean for the future evolution of society (the evolutionary leap in question being the sudden appearance of quasi-instantaneous global communication). The telegraph had long been surpassed during the childhood we look back on as though it were all simple joy, yet certain 19th century thinkers would have been horrified by it. I don't see any qualitative difference between controlling screen time and controlling tv time or video game time (these were screens too); kids getting excited at having a tv for their bedroom (shock horror!) or an internet connected PC is surely similar to excitement over a new phone. Some parents will do better than others at resisting and bringing their kids into nature or just kicking them outside to muck about.

I'm just not seeing any solid arguments for "we're more fucked than ever", just a look at the past which is limited to how things in the present look to our 80s and 90s brains, when what matters is a trans-generational perspective, which makes things in the present seem less disastrous, relatively speaking. We have the same problem with corporations hijacking experience as we have had for a long time; it's a real problem, and they are getting better at it. We just have to get better at fighting back.

Which is why we should agree here and now to train all our children to be eco-terrorists!

Edit: Progress my hole if the predictive capabilities of Android are anything to go by; impossible to write anything of length on a "smart"phone :/

[Pedrito]

I think we have gotten to a stage where we probably think we're a lot more advanced than we actually are, and we forget the amount of mongoloid shit that continues to go on in our world. Just read the news story about yer one Zappone and the 6 people who applied to be child minders for frontline staff. For all our technology and manipulation, you still have gobshites coming up with ill judged, poorly planned, grand ideas that nobody gets behind. We can't avoid the human factor in all of this.

I get the same sense from the likes of Elon Musk for example who seems to be far more a marketing tool than anything else. Yes, nice cars, but it's not like they don't cost a shit load of money anyway, but I get the sense that there's a lot of spoof coming from him. He seems emotionally underdeveloped and has bought into this idea that he is some Tony Stark character. My point being that we are fed an image of these visions of the future, but Musk just comes across to me as some lad that probably had a proper rough time in school and has spent his entire life making up for it. Again, human, imperfect.

Yes, technology is an issue, but I think it always has been and the human factor is always going to play a part. We see Instagram pics and these visions of perfection, people seem to take everything, and everyone on face value these days, say and act appropriately and you get a pass. How long will that last before a future generation starts pushing back on the hypocrisy? Kids in the US in the 60's pushed back on this Happy Families image that has come back into style again, the perfect child stuff, and who would have thought our generation would bring it back?

But it's like anything, there will be a reaction to everything in the end, swings and roundabouts. I watched Barry Lyndon last night, all these rich Lord and Ladies in their massive mansions with slaves about. They thought they were going to live forever through their descendants and all that guff and as the final credits said, The rich and poor, the ugly and beautiful, they all ended up in the same place..and I think that's a good way to think about it. The idea that somehow we can, could or should control what is happening is simply folly, so we'd be far better off focussing on ourselves, what makes us happy and fulfilled, and history and time will take care of the rest.

All that said, I still wouldn't rule out a Butlerian Jihad in the future 

[Eoin McLove]

I agree that we have a certain amount of power in all this, at least in terms of how much we interact with certain elements of technology and how we allow it to affect us on a mental level- easier for some,  less so for others depending on your personality and maybe you can train yourself in mental fortitude to some degree. Avoiding poisonous (in my view, at least) sites like Instagram is probably a good start, as is not following news items about social justice groups who seem hellbent on controlling culture- that's certainly a swings and roundabouts scenario or some bizarre over contention phenomenon. It's incredible how much we all allow online nonsense to infect our brains so it's important to try to keep a sense of perspective and,  of course, to try to spend quality time offline and engaging in the real world. That might not be so easy depending on your line of work, though.

[mugz]

when we moved away from home ownership, copper landlines, communities, towns, national engagement, we lost a lot.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Not really sure where to put this for maximum reach, but here seems kind of appropriate in terms of the reflections it merits. The AlphaGo documentary, about the AI DeepMind designed which eventually beat the world's greatest Go player. It's fascinating, thought-provoking, really well made and well worth your time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXuK6gekU1Y

[Caomhaoin]

when we moved away from home ownership, copper landlines, communities, towns, national engagement, we lost a lot.

You mean the illusion of home ownership. I'll be 60 before I own mine, despite co-owning an apartment 'on paper'.

[The Butcher]

Not really sure where to put this for maximum reach, but here seems kind of appropriate in terms of the reflections it merits. The AlphaGo documentary, about the AI DeepMind designed which eventually beat the world's greatest Go player. It's fascinating, thought-provoking, really well made and well worth your time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXuK6gekU1Y

Yeah excellent doc alright. It's definitely a step in the right direction for neural networks and very impressive work done by the devs.

Not as well made as the doc but a brief look into what I see as the next step, conquering a game like Dota 2 which this video explains why it's insanely difficult to try master this for a neural network AI ->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Q1NL4k8cI

Also some other cool stuff ->
https://openai.com/blog/emergent-tool-use/
https://openai.com/blog/solving-rubiks-cube/

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Nice, thanks! I'm trying to model some behaviour data at the moment, so mining as much inspiration as possible from the world of RL and machine learning.