The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Bigmac]

Yeah I'd definitely give that a read if it were made available.

I don't know where I'd stand on the whole anarcho-primitivist view, but I suppose I'd share his ecological outlooks given I enjoy self sufficiency.

I think Keith Woods does a good job here speaking about the anarchism of Butler versus the anarchism of Jensen, based on that clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27TXMvGDqJM&t=720s&ab_channel=KeithWoods

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Unless you know Butler and Foucault's philosophies better than he does, and yet somehow still agree with his conclusions, then I don't know how you could conclude that he's doing a good job, since he talks in only the vaguest of generalities. I've never heard of Keith Woods before, but I dropped by his Twitter page and was hit by several "libtard" memes within the last 24 hours. Despite his big talk, I don't really think that makes for a good spokesperson for "transcending" anything!

[Bigmac]

Yeah I wouldn't be as familiar with their doctrines as he would, but even realising there's a split in anarchism between the Liberal individualist type of Butler, and the kind of anti-State but pro-collectivist/tribal ideas of Jensen are all new to me, so I enjoyed it for imparting that much at least.

He's a bit of a mixed bag, I've enjoyed some of his videos on third position ideas, as I had never considered anything beyond the left/right, capitalist/communist paradigm, but he's definitely a bit of a rascal.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If you want the historical context, which he doesn't give, then it's Bakunin's collectivist anarchism versus Proudhon's "libertarian" anarchism. But, for me, even that is a question of interpretation. Like when I read Proudhon, I didn't read him as a libertarian at all, and the fact that libertarians look to him as something of a godfather came as a surprise to me. But yeah, Bakunin is definitely worth reading; his interpretation of the garden of Eden story must have been dynamite at the time: "Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds."

[Bigmac]

Just reading through his wiki now. What an absolute mad lad, and a Bathory descendent, if legend is to be believed.

I'll pick up something of his to have a look at. Seems like quite the character.

[Pedrito]

Well, speak of the devil:
https://www.newstatesman.com/international/2020/09/judith-butler-culture-wars-jk-rowling-and-living-anti-intellectual-times

I know some of you will find an interview with Judith Butler very difficult to read, but since you have her in large part to blame for lots of the ideas you despise, it's worth seeing what she has to say on the subject today. Read it to the end or don't read it.

She finishes up with this:

AF: What do you think would break this impasse in feminism over trans rights? What would lead to a more constructive debate?

JB: I suppose a debate, were it possible, would have to reconsider the ways in which the medical determination of sex functions in relation to the lived and historical reality of gender.

*Judith Butler goes by she or they


Essentially a whole load of nothing, an impossible conversation really and one which she most likely would set the rules for. The article is just a whole lot of word play, a kind of intellectual fencing that she is capable of doing ensconced in her academic ivory tower.


And yet she's smugly dangerous, pushing experiments on small kids and legalization of pedophilia. Jesus something really bad must have happened for her to end up like that.

[Pedrito]

I'd also add that women's toilets by their very nature are meant to be exclusionary. It's the very idea behind them. A 'safe space' where the sex that gets pregnant, has periods and pisses differently can do their thing in peace. The idea that everyone should be invited into them for a tour, just stick on a dress and waltz around with their cock hanging out goes entirely against the whole concept. We can relativise anything intellectually, but there exists a practical, pragmatic side to all of this too which gets left out of the conversation. Maybe the answer is the 3rd toilet. Maybe the answer is 2 more for kids to keep them away from creeps because god knows there were plenty around when I was young.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Did someone mention legalising paedophilia?

https://youtu.be/yuUutL6bhM0

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I'd also add that women's toilets by their very nature are meant to be exclusionary. It's the very idea behind them. A 'safe space' where the sex that gets pregnant, has periods and pisses differently can do their thing in peace. The idea that everyone should be invited into them for a tour, just stick on a dress and waltz around with their cock hanging out goes entirely against the whole concept. We can relativise anything intellectually, but there exists a practical, pragmatic side to all of this too which gets left out of the conversation. Maybe the answer is the 3rd toilet. Maybe the answer is 2 more for kids to keep them away from creeps because god knows there were plenty around when I was young.

I mean, as it stands, any man who feels so inclined could do his utmost to look like a woman and sneak into the ladies toilets in order to get close enough to women to assault them. It's still assault, and it would still be assault if s.he claimed she was identifying as a woman that day/week/month/lifetime. These scenarios are pure alarmist fart, if you ask me. And, whatever about whatever it is you're referring to "experiments on kids", Judith Butler (who's not someone I agree with philosophically) is no more pushing for the legalization of paedophilia than Ozzy Osborne was pushing kids to suicide.

[Pedrito]

What's your take on the article then? You stuck it up without really saying why. I don't tend to agree with her. She has said plenty of outrageous nonsense over the years. The assault argument is far below the main argument anyway. The main argument is the reason for exclusion.

Why is the male toilet not ok? We could argue pure alarmist fart about transgenders getting attacked in male toilets too. We could argue pure alamrmist fart about a man who supposedly is a woman. It's all pure alarmist fart. But they want access to one jacks to get away from the other. Maybe the 3rd toilet is the way? It probably is, though I'm sure economics will come into that. An extra toilet for .0 whatever portion of the population. Ideally it would exist, but it's still not good enough argument for women having to concede their space.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If you honestly think that there's a higher chance of a transgender woman assaulting a woman in a ladies toilets than a transgender woman being harassed/assaulted in a men's toilets, fair enough. Personally, being a man and knowing men, I find that almost impossible to believe, but I have no kind of data or whatever.

"I think we are living in anti-intellectual times, and that this is evident across the political spectrum. The quickness of social media allows for forms of vitriol that do not exactly support thoughtful debate. We need to cherish the longer forms."
And let's remind ourselves of two things on that: JK got herself in all this trouble because she just couldn't manage not to scut out a "quip" on Twitter, and that Judith Butler doesn't have an account at all, so it's not just your typical empty sentiment. Sure, many who look up to her do have accounts and do scut out shite non-stop, but there's as much wisdom in those three sentences as there were in the entire Harper's letter, for those who are receptive to it.

[Pedrito]

I liked the sentence. She has others that I'd be extremely wary of though. She's right about Rowling for what it's worth(in terms of twitter vomit), it's entirely unnecessary, but that's the way of the world right now.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I'm pretty sure you'd be right to be wary about them! Being wary isn't the problem; the problem is people dismissing based on hearsay, based on snippets, which are often delivered without context to make them sound as shocking as possible. Jensen, in that video, for example, removed the quote he used from its context within an essay about psychoanalysis (which has always been obsessed with incest) and presented it to make it sound like she was saying, "incest is grand." And why did he do that? To get a rise out of some trouble-makers, except now it's out there on video, and lots of people who will never take the time to check out the full argumentation it comes from have had their minds made up for them. That's anti-intellectualism, pure and simple, just as much as the crap the liberals come out with.

[Caomhaoin]

Jaysus that boiled my blood absolutely rotten, that slut would have been the first one tied to a post at Salem! Cheers, nice to have a human emotion other than frustration with the way work is at the moment:)

[Caomhaoin]

The response to yer wan Ginsbergs death is gas altogether. You'd swear she was Jesus V.2.