The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[leatherface]

They are actually beautiful statues and really stood out on the street. Fuking warped nonsense. I really hope they get reinstated. Who the hell came up with this bullshit?

Hotel management apparently came up with the idea.

I find all of this behaviour odd and frightening. The issues and ideas behind all of it are fine but the actions demonstrate all the worst facets of the fascism they purport to be against. It just tribe VS tribe, no common ground, no mature discussion.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

At the very least, I now know what very little there is to know historically about the statues. Architect who chose them was a mason, unsurprisingly given the era. An Alan Moore style masonic vista of Dublin would be well interesting.

Beautiful statues artistically. Along with St.Patrick, I'd be happy enough to see them replaced by something representative of Gaelic traditions, but since we can be guaranteed no one has even considered that, a very silly thing to take them down like that. Shelbourne management seems to be totally out of touch with the nature of its own clientele if it thinks any of that set give a shit about such things. Quite the opposite if anything. Honestly can't see what they have to gain from it, in much the same way I thought it was easy to see what Netflix had to gain from their moves.

[astfgyl]

They get their consciences washed clean, before going back out amongst the filthy masses to spread their selfless message of pure virtue.

It's to be admired really.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

It is interesting the statues were chosen by a mason though, since this whole global movement boils down to a debate about symbolism, the thing which was of arguably supreme importance to the masonic enterprise. The statues may not "mean" anything to us today, but it can be safely assumed they had great meaning to the architect. Hence my  Alan Moore remark (it's a reference to From Hell, for anyone who may not know).

[Pedrito]

That whole architectural breakdown in From Hell was amazing in fairness. Was it From Hell that talked about the goddess Diana being worshipped in London way back in the great beyond and that the 'sacrifice' of the modern Diana of Wales was far from an accident but in line with some masonic symbolism etc etc. Maybe it was a Moore.interview?

Anyway, yeah, the owners of the Marriott are...guess. The Marriott group. A big fuck off American corporation that doesn't realise the sick irony of it's cultural imperialism in its complete disregard for the history and architecture of our beloved city. These faceless fuking vampires. We all hate slavery, we don't need to be coddled though.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Ah, well if it was a Marriott decision, that makes a lot more sense.

I guess what I meant is that, superficially, the statues were taken down by people who knew nothing about their history, for the reason that, on the surface, they are statues of slaves, two of whom are black. The Georgian society and others defending their presence based on their aesthetic, cultural, and historic importance are advancing that this aspect of slavery is just part of the artistry, nothing more, and that this should be obvious since it hearkens back to ancient Egypt rather than recent history. But, in fact, there's quite a good chance that if anyone had access to the deeper history of the statues, to whatever ritualistic masonic reasoning led to the choice of ancient Egyptian iconography for a Dublin hotel, it could easily turn out to be something even more sinister! In that respect, it actually makes it potentially one of the most intriguing results of the statue toppling malarkey...just don't expect to hear it discussed anywhere.

[ldj]

People are trying to cancel Buzz from the Melvins now for appearing on some right wing podcast.

My politics are pretty left leaning but I love this idea that anyone slightly conservative is a nazi, it's like saying anyone left leaning wants to round up the kulaks  .

[Eoin McLove]

Ewww emmm jeeee. Hawving cawnveursations is, loik, sew dangerous!

[Airneanach]

Cancel culture is the perfect term for it. It's great how they've unwittingly parodies themselves again with that one. A petulant, me me me, edit reality to suit my moral complex term.

To be honest the only thing that genuinely fucks me off is that this kind of shit gives real fascist, racist fuckheads plenty of ammo and a big ol' platform to shoot it from. The intelligent far right have become extremely adapt at leaning the lingo first and twisting it around, embellishing minority extreme views to make them appear as the norm.

How many ordinary people now associate anodyne terms like equality and women's rights with toxic movements of reactionary censorship whereas a lot of all those base terms really mean is...not being a prick?

They'll take that to the disenfranchised and play on their fears. Nothing new there, though.

[Eoin McLove]

I see what your saying but I'm not sure if the far right have had to employ much twisting considering the nature of cancel culture, constant offence-taking over bizarre micro-aggressions, online shaming, intersectionalist line drawing and any other of the reason-phobic tactics being employed by a small, aggressive and loud faction of the far left. Their bizarre philosophy is at best ludicrous, and at worst, pernicious.

BLM and Antifa are handing the far right a present wrapped in a bow.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I'm not sure if the far right have had to employ much twisting considering the nature of cancel culture.

Twisting of discourse, no. Twisting of who identifies with that discourse, yes. Just look at what Trump is doing with Biden right now, directly associating him with every far left position he can muster, like defund the police, anti-God, etc. Almost none of it is true, but to the average American it seems plausible, and that's enough. The broader point still stands though, that the extremists are occupying the left discourse in a way that isn't happening in the right; it comes across very plausible that all the left really believe all the stuff antifa shriek about; it doesn't at all come across as plausible that all conservatives are fascists. And so, it's a vicious circle, since otherwise "moderate" lefts trying to peddle the latter discourse end up looking like...shrieking antifas

[Eoin McLove]

Give me a few names of reasonable centre left commentators to check out. I find I'm listening to the same stuff too much lately.

[Airneanach]

Yeah Black Shepard's explained it a bit better, there. One of the fundamental raison d'êtres of the far right is to combat the left. All of it. To do that it needs a groundswell of public support which it's historically garnered through emotional drumming on people's fears and insecurities. The easiest way to do this is to take some of the more extreme iterations of the left and sell it back to society as if it's an accurate representation of your average leftist think tank/voter sample. 

No, they don't need to tart up some of the ideologies or mentalities the real wallopers espouse, but they do pass this off as a simulacra of what the left is about. And it's horseshit. It's just not the reality of the situation. The silent majority are invariably quite moderate, so they're less likely to make themselves known. Have you any idea the amount of people who associate the left with dyed in the wool communism? Your average right leaning American would see the Nordic model of democratic socialism as selling your soul down the red river styx.

The left have been at it for years, too, of course. It's a huge reason why 2016 happened. Your average Republican certainly does tend to be somewhat...conservative...but their voter base extends to a huge amount of fairly moderate people. But in Hollywood - in culture - they were the buck tooth fag baiting rednecks for decades.

It's only recently the far left - through online zealotry - have gifted the right with a similarly potent weapon of misappropriation. They finally have something that's a little more up to date than McCarthyism or falling back on scripture or "Well they're just snooty college hippies."

BLM and Antifa are both decentralised movements. How much they've been hijacked or how much they've been misrepresented - and you can be sure it's a combination of both - is another debate - but they literally just mean 'black lives matter' and 'anti fascist'. I'm a strong agree on both those sentiments.

[Eoin McLove]

Hang on, by that reasoning the entire raison d'etre of the far left is to combat the right! I think the raison d'etre of the far left is to combat everything from fascism to capitalism to, lately, being white heterosexual and male, having any kind of concern over the teaching of gender issues to children and any of a multitude of baffling brainfarts that somehow equate with oppression.

The far right is noxious for its own reasons but let's not pretend that the far left have the moral high ground here.

Far middle or fuck off!

Black Lives Matter "laterally means" black lives matter?

Antifa "literally means" anti fascist?

I assume you're either taking the piss or on the koolaid.

I think both of those organisations, centralised or decentralised, have more than proven that they represent far more than their reasonable handles suggest. What has looting, defunding the police,  taking over entire blocks in cities which have resulted in murders, burning down businesses etc got to do with improving the standard of life for the average African American? What has cancelling anyone with a philosophy not far left of centre, harassing venues and record labels, cancelling gigs by bands with the most tenuous of links to right wing bands got to do with being anti fascist? Seems kind of like the opposite to me. Total oppression,  total control- that's the game.

Whether that shit is being forced from the left or the right,  I'm completely against it.

[Eoin McLove]

But anyway,  we are back on the roundabout.  Give me a few decent left commentators to check out who aren't "shrieking antifa" muppets.