The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[astfgyl]

Except none of this is equal odds because it's all being done without the consent of the larger part of the populace.

Heard Stephen donnelly today on the radio saying there should be a local dividend for towns like Roscrea who have taken more than their fair share population wise already. He never entertained the idea of slowing any of it down or actively deporting failed applicants or anything like that, only saying that those towns should get more services in time as recognition for their efforts that they didn't willingly make.

Whatever these government lads have gotten themselves into, they obviously can't get out of it or they would be doing so by now due to the level of public opposition to it all.

People know there's something off with it all but can't understand why it's not only still going but going even stronger than ever, even though the services are not there, the accommodation is not there, and the public will is not there.

Irish citizens have been turned down for school places, doctors panels, medical appointments kicked back years and more such like but yet the new arrivals are being put up, given medical cards and places on doctors panels, school places, social welfare, employers incentivised to employ them, no prescription charges, bring your lovely cars, bring your dogs and cats, modular homes built in mere months, planning law exemptions to house them.

These things are all true and people are wondering why, so in the absence of anything approaching an answer from the government they will protest, and the protests are growing, and the public sentiment is turning more and more against all the new arrivals. It's almost universal in the rural towns. I was in the restaurant at lunch today and three of the four tables around me were talking about this and saying basically everything I'm saying here.

The government are gone at the next election because of this, and yet they persist. In the absence of any explanation, people will come up with more and more stuff to explain it to themselves which likely won't be true but won't do anything to quell the discontent.

Things are so bad, even the polish lads are turning sour and I wouldn't blame them either because they had none of this when they got here. Its fucking weird, all of it.

Edit: Couple of things...

Firstly, all of the good sentiment that was here with the arrival of refugees from the war in Ukraine is pretty much gone from the public, due to government actions and their wilful blindness to public dissatisfaction. Oh they know, but they won't stop, and I know they won't stop because it's in their 2040 plan which is in the public domain not hidden or anything. So they will not stop no matter what, leading me to believe they can't even if they wanted to.

Secondly, saying all this I won't be joining any protest of this kind because it's aimed at the wrong people and held in the wrong places. I know a good few of the local lads and I don't mind them, even though I do think the treatment of the Irish citizens vs many of them is lacking to say the least. It's still not the fault of these people at the end of the day and I'm not going down the road of saying they're all criminals etc, even though we've no way to know if they are because we take them without identification in the majority of cases.

Lastly, this won't end well the way it's going and someone will be hurt and more things will burn and more laws will be brought in to oppress the general population as a result. Something needs to be done to turn the tap off and quickly.

https://twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1747387594793423335?t=g1gOYHaT4CjlQieHpsCeAA&s=19

Here, here's a small sample of the absolute madness of it all. Look at that clip.

The statement that the government has a "legal obligation and a moral obligation" must not be underestimated. A legal obligation to whom, exactly? Who is running the country in real terms if they legally have to do this? Under the Dublin regulations they actually don't, so who are they pleasing and why are they doing it?

Here's the answer as far as I can see:

https://ireland.representation.ec.europa.eu/news-and-events/news/ireland-voluntarily-agrees-take-part-eu-schemes-resettle-refugees-2021-02-28_en

So what is this Clear Legal Obligation that they are speaking of in the clip?

[Mower Liberation Front]

The statement that the government has a "legal obligation and a moral obligation" must not be underestimated. A legal obligation to whom, exactly?

Funny how they also have a legal obligation to abolish VRT yet ignore that one...

[91/30]

The government are gone at the next election because of this, and yet they persist.

I don't think you're right about that at present.  There isn't presently an alternative.  SF are lapdogs and have been for a few decades.

It took a good few years before countries like the Netherlands finally had enough and took the necessary political action

[Ollkiller]

What they should do is build a fuck load of houses and ban vulture funds from buying gaffs. Varadkar actually said it wouldn't be fair on people with houses if prices went down as they would be in negative equity. It's not fair paying over 100k more for a house than it's worth. The mind boggles how out of touch they are.

Also we could end the housing crisis tomorrow if we compulsory purchased all the vacant gaffs. But no. That would actually work so we wont do that.

[astfgyl]

The statement that the government has a "legal obligation and a moral obligation" must not be underestimated. A legal obligation to whom, exactly?

Funny how they also have a legal obligation to abolish VRT yet ignore that one...

I think the profit is more than the fine so it's grand for the lads.

The government are gone at the next election because of this, and yet they persist.

I don't think you're right about that at present.  There isn't presently an alternative.  SF are lapdogs and have been for a few decades.

It took a good few years before countries like the Netherlands finally had enough and took the necessary political action

SF are not an alternative to anything, and faced with them as an alternative I would choose the current crowd. That's how much regard I have for SF.

What they should do is build a fuck load of houses and ban vulture funds from buying gaffs. Varadkar actually said it wouldn't be fair on people with houses if prices went down as they would be in negative equity. It's not fair paying over 100k more for a house than it's worth. The mind boggles how out of touch they are.

Also we could end the housing crisis tomorrow if we compulsory purchased all the vacant gaffs. But no. That would actually work so we wont do that.

I would agree with that general sentiment but why should we do that for Africans when we wouldn't do it for the Irish all along? Funnily enough I'm a bit of a socialist myself but I still don't think solving it for welfare tourists should be prioritised over sorting it for those who legally got here, including lads from other countries who went through the proper process going back years. We have enough chancers of our own so we have no need to import them and fix the place to suit them.




Anyhow, I've been fascinated by the Legal Obligation argument all evening and the best I can find is that it's bare faced lies. Ideologically anyone can argue the toss all they want but the legal thing doesn't exist as far as I can see. Funnily enough in the clip I posted from Prime Time, the presenter never once challenged that assertion, and in fact even chimed in to confirm it more than once.

Well here's the ICHR's take on it (Irish Council for Human Rights apparently, even though I gave 3/4 of the covid days haranguing them on twitter because they were worse than useless in standing up for anyone's human rights during that time):

https://ichr.ie/irelands-legal-obligations-regarding-asylum-and-immigration/#:~:text=1)%20Under%20the%20Treaty%20of,to%20opt%20into%20these%20laws.

Now does anyone have anything to counter the information that they are sharing here? Not their opinion, their legislative information. I can't find anything of this Legal Obligation that we are being told about so until I do, I shall have to conclude that it's lies and nothing less.

[Ollkiller]

My general point was if there wasnt a housing crisis that has irish people rightly pissed off it wouldn't be as much as an issue. Housing should be a human right anyway. But that would require collective thinking for people on a global scale and were a few thousand years off yet.

[91/30]

Legal obligations might be this

"The EU Temporary Protection Directive has now been activated in response to the Ukraine crisis. The Directive is an emergency provision designed to quickly and humanely respond to the mass displacement of Ukrainian people by Russian aggression.

Ireland participates in this measure, which has been given legal effect under Section 60 of the International Protection Act

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/information-on-temporary-protection-for-people-fleeing-the-conflict-in-ukraine/

The Dutch central government had the same proposal to load foreigners in to rural communities but in that country it is been vigorously opposed

[astfgyl]

Aye, that's for the Ukrainians though. It doesn't seem to cover the rest of the lads. I actually think the Irish were all up for the Ukrainian women and children we were supposed to be hosting. Then when I saw the Ukrainian men I thought "fuck it I wouldn't fight for zelensky either" so I didn't blame them tbh.

But now..... I still don't think there's any legal obligation for the other nationalities. Do the government have a legal obligation to house Irish homeless? I haven't heard whether they do or not. The legal obligation without evidence is annoying when they keep saying it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The Dutch central government had the same proposal to load foreigners in to rural communities but in that country it is been vigorously opposed

Overall population density of the Netherlands is around 8 times that of Ireland: they have over three times our population in almost half the surface area. And in 2022, they welcomed almost three times as many refugees as Ireland. Apples and oranges (forgive the pun).

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Re legal obligation, in the specific context of International Protection Accommodation Services that the situation with the hotel in Roscrea falls under:

Under EU and International Law, Ireland is obliged to examine the claim of any person who arrives into the country and claims International Protection.

While that claim is being examined by the Department of Justice, IPAS offers accommodation and related services to International Protection applicants who wish to accept the offer of accommodation from the Irish State.

This includes all meals and utilities. Full access to public medical services is provided and weekly personal allowance is also paid to each person (€38.80 for adults and €29.80 for children). After six months, International Protection applicants are eligible to work if they have not received a first decision on their application. For more information, please see the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service's website.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/32a25-accommodation-services/

[hellfire]

And then they voted for a party that wants to deport every last adherent of Islam. No policy on the economy, agriculture or anything else apart from deporting.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

And then they voted for a party that wants to deport every last adherent of Islam. No policy on the economy, agriculture or anything else apart from deporting.

That is what happened alright. I was pointing out that any claim of #HollandIsFull would necessarily and physically have more weight to it than #IrelandIsFull. Holland is literally several times "fuller" than Ireland.

[astfgyl]

Re legal obligation, in the specific context of International Protection Accommodation Services that the situation with the hotel in Roscrea falls under:

Under EU and International Law, Ireland is obliged to examine the claim of any person who arrives into the country and claims International Protection.

While that claim is being examined by the Department of Justice, IPAS offers accommodation and related services to International Protection applicants who wish to accept the offer of accommodation from the Irish State.

This includes all meals and utilities. Full access to public medical services is provided and weekly personal allowance is also paid to each person (€38.80 for adults and €29.80 for children). After six months, International Protection applicants are eligible to work if they have not received a first decision on their application. For more information, please see the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service's website.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/32a25-accommodation-services/

How does that work in terms of the opt out that they can avail of? I feel like they don't have to do any of this if they don't want to, but that they are doing it anyway because they do want to. Likely for money or some future population plan like having a younger demographic to pay the pensions but it might be nice if they'd come out and say so instead of insisting on things that seem not to be true. It's costing a fortune as well so treating the populace like adults could work. I mean, some of them even are adults.

As for Holland being full.... I really don't care about Holland at all. They can deal with their own things. I wonder how they hold up against us in terms of infrastructure, which is a lot of the problem here

[hellfire]

Yeah, the semantics of the hashtag don't really bother me. Full in the Irish case means there's nowhere to live. Full in the Dutch case seems to mean turfing out everyone who is not ethnically Dutch.

[astfgyl]

I wouldn't be into that Dutch version at all that's just straight up racism but I guess they created their own monster there through the sheer volume of imports. I just think it all needs to be slowed down here because we really have ran out of places to put them as it is. Also I am noticing a "get them all out" attitude creeping in here a bit, which I also blame the government for. I'm blue in the face (is mise duine gorm anois! Gheobhaidh mè mo chòta a dhaoine, tà bròn orm...) from saying there needs to be proper process for work visas here and simply refuse lads from safe countries if they don't apply properly.

Yes yes derelict buildings and whatnot but that in itself is an accident waiting to happen because the planning laws are on hold for these places and before long there will be a fire or some other disaster in a building full of kids or something, and not one started by the far right either (although there has been no verdict of arson in any of those cases or indeed any verdict at all). Perhaps slow it to a trickle of the most desperate cases and maybe the government could spend some of the eye watering sums involved on making us a country that can accept people on lesser grounds in a decade or so.