The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[astfgyl]

There's as many who aren't Ukrainian on the way in and it's not as simple as housing. That's not what has the regular folk up in arms at all

[hellfire]

https://twitter.com/CryptoPalantir/status/1658827839259529221?t=nRyXrdPUHbHal1loO3wlsQ&s=19

Came across this video from one of the far right lads on Twitter. Some of you may agree, some of you may not but I think his description of the media coverage is a lot of the reason that a lot of people are feeling disenfranchised at the moment. Debate is not allowed and engagement is disengaged. All day every day I'm meeting normal Joe and Jane soaps who feel exactly as this fella describes in his monologue and they're giving me the nod and the wink if government or immigration is mentioned. These are the type of people who most certainly are not on Twitter or telegram and who still watch the rte news every night so they aren't being led or anything, they can see for themselves that something is off with the pace of what's happening but they have no representation. How long before the actual far right begins to appeal to these people who are firmly in the centre is what I'm thinking. And when it happens it will be entirely due to the government's failure to engage at any level with the ordinary concerned citizen of the country rather than anything the foreign lads might or mightn't do.

And speaking of the foreign lads, I'm dealing with them all day every day and I know most of them in the town and there's not a bother on them so I'm not blaming those lads either as I get on fine with them as much as any of the Irish boys and I think of them as no different than the Irish in Oz or Canada or France or Spain looking for a new experience or a better life. Was only high fiving one of the Crimean boys and two Arab lads on the way home from work that I helped out lately and I'm not against the folks in themselves at all (and funnily enough I have met a few engineers!) but the steadfast refusal from government to engage or indeed in any way attempt to slow down the unmanageable influx is really causing a divide in this country, it really is and it's an awful shame the way it's turning out because I don't believe that the Irish are an unwelcoming nation at all but enough is enough and too much is too much, simple as.

It's a real pity the way this is turning out to be a game of extremes, free for all vs free for none when the obvious approach is to try meet halfway but no-one will.

Fuck the binary Americanisation of Irish political discourse and fuck the lot of em in the dáil as well for refusing to see what's happening. They're going to cause war with their shit.

I know that lad from various Twitter spaces. He goes from really sensible to full headcase very quickly.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

It almost sounds like you're trying to claim that, prior to twitter and telegram, there was zero propagation of political views among the general population and that it was impossible for people to be "led or anything." I think you know that's nonsense. Firstly, videos like this will spread on whatsapp too, plus in small communities it only takes one person having seen it before everyone has heard it recounted as gospel, most likely not knowing the sources. There are no "centre" people floating around wholly untouched, no matter how indirectly (and the nature of chinese whispers is to make things sound gradually worse and worse), by political arguments.

I've never seen that lad before, but even in that video there's a prominent mix of sensible and headcase, as hellfire calls it. Now there's a prominent mix of sensible and headcase in similar videos made by local lads on "the other side" who give up their time to go hands on to help refugees, go talk to them, etc., so we can call that the nature of the game, but still means you need to pay attention to the actual arguments, one by one. I didn't look into the Inch case at all, but his account of it there is a bit all over the place: he says the derelict hotel is 8km away from Inch, that the refugees don't have cars, that there are no services (medical, transport...) in Inch anyway... so then, what threat are the 69 lads supposed to pose? They can't drain services that don't exist, they can't take jobs that don't exist, they can't go on drive-by shootings... Then the fall out of the blockade was that now the 69 are piled up in three cottages, and so of course that's bad too, because everything has to be bad. Pragmatically, what would have been a win for a lad like this? That the 69 lads be bused around Ireland indefinitely?

Everything that Inch needs, as a community, that's what the focus should be on. The arrival nearby of more people could be used to fuel arguments to get those services provided, rather than turning them against the refugees themselves... exactly as was done in Sandwith Street. Locals and refugees could actually stand together, doubling (if not 150 percenting, to quote yer man) their voice against the government and their cronies. But who has the imagination for that scenario? No one on the right anyway, since their imagination is all used up elsewhere.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

When I clicked 'Home' from yer man's video, this just happened to be top of my Twitter feed due to a RT from someone in the Irish metal scene who doesn't post here:
https://twitter.com/sarahmaintains/status/1659462380525441024

Makes for a relevant totally contrasting perspective.

[hellfire]

The gist of what she is saying is true. They're not wanted anywhere on the island. A handful of crusties and activist journalists are the only ones supporting the governments immigration policies.

[astfgyl]

https://twitter.com/CryptoPalantir/status/1658827839259529221?t=nRyXrdPUHbHal1loO3wlsQ&s=19

Came across this video from one of the far right lads on Twitter. Some of you may agree, some of you may not but I think his description of the media coverage is a lot of the reason that a lot of people are feeling disenfranchised at the moment. Debate is not allowed and engagement is disengaged. All day every day I'm meeting normal Joe and Jane soaps who feel exactly as this fella describes in his monologue and they're giving me the nod and the wink if government or immigration is mentioned. These are the type of people who most certainly are not on Twitter or telegram and who still watch the rte news every night so they aren't being led or anything, they can see for themselves that something is off with the pace of what's happening but they have no representation. How long before the actual far right begins to appeal to these people who are firmly in the centre is what I'm thinking. And when it happens it will be entirely due to the government's failure to engage at any level with the ordinary concerned citizen of the country rather than anything the foreign lads might or mightn't do.

And speaking of the foreign lads, I'm dealing with them all day every day and I know most of them in the town and there's not a bother on them so I'm not blaming those lads either as I get on fine with them as much as any of the Irish boys and I think of them as no different than the Irish in Oz or Canada or France or Spain looking for a new experience or a better life. Was only high fiving one of the Crimean boys and two Arab lads on the way home from work that I helped out lately and I'm not against the folks in themselves at all (and funnily enough I have met a few engineers!) but the steadfast refusal from government to engage or indeed in any way attempt to slow down the unmanageable influx is really causing a divide in this country, it really is and it's an awful shame the way it's turning out because I don't believe that the Irish are an unwelcoming nation at all but enough is enough and too much is too much, simple as.

It's a real pity the way this is turning out to be a game of extremes, free for all vs free for none when the obvious approach is to try meet halfway but no-one will.

Fuck the binary Americanisation of Irish political discourse and fuck the lot of em in the dáil as well for refusing to see what's happening. They're going to cause war with their shit.

I know that lad from various Twitter spaces. He goes from really sensible to full headcase very quickly.

I've never came across him before but I'm sure if I look into it he'll be in with the NP or something similar. Sounds fairly rational in that one but I was using him to illustrate my own point for the most part

[astfgyl]

When I clicked 'Home' from yer man's video, this just happened to be top of my Twitter feed due to a RT from someone in the Irish metal scene who doesn't post here:
https://twitter.com/sarahmaintains/status/1659462380525441024

Makes for a relevant totally contrasting perspective.

It's hard to see much of a different perspective when talking about 69 men moving into a village of 40, but at the same time I get what she is saying to an extent. Almost all of the foreign lads I'm meeting daily are grand but the policy is bullshit

[hellfire]

https://twitter.com/CryptoPalantir/status/1658827839259529221?t=nRyXrdPUHbHal1loO3wlsQ&s=19

Came across this video from one of the far right lads on Twitter. Some of you may agree, some of you may not but I think his description of the media coverage is a lot of the reason that a lot of people are feeling disenfranchised at the moment. Debate is not allowed and engagement is disengaged. All day every day I'm meeting normal Joe and Jane soaps who feel exactly as this fella describes in his monologue and they're giving me the nod and the wink if government or immigration is mentioned. These are the type of people who most certainly are not on Twitter or telegram and who still watch the rte news every night so they aren't being led or anything, they can see for themselves that something is off with the pace of what's happening but they have no representation. How long before the actual far right begins to appeal to these people who are firmly in the centre is what I'm thinking. And when it happens it will be entirely due to the government's failure to engage at any level with the ordinary concerned citizen of the country rather than anything the foreign lads might or mightn't do.

And speaking of the foreign lads, I'm dealing with them all day every day and I know most of them in the town and there's not a bother on them so I'm not blaming those lads either as I get on fine with them as much as any of the Irish boys and I think of them as no different than the Irish in Oz or Canada or France or Spain looking for a new experience or a better life. Was only high fiving one of the Crimean boys and two Arab lads on the way home from work that I helped out lately and I'm not against the folks in themselves at all (and funnily enough I have met a few engineers!) but the steadfast refusal from government to engage or indeed in any way attempt to slow down the unmanageable influx is really causing a divide in this country, it really is and it's an awful shame the way it's turning out because I don't believe that the Irish are an unwelcoming nation at all but enough is enough and too much is too much, simple as.

It's a real pity the way this is turning out to be a game of extremes, free for all vs free for none when the obvious approach is to try meet halfway but no-one will.

Fuck the binary Americanisation of Irish political discourse and fuck the lot of em in the dáil as well for refusing to see what's happening. They're going to cause war with their shit.

I know that lad from various Twitter spaces. He goes from really sensible to full headcase very quickly.

I've never came across him before but I'm sure if I look into it he'll be in with the NP or something similar. Sounds fairly rational in that one but I was using him to illustrate my own point for the most part

He always sounds rational until he doesn't. Heard him on a Twitter space going on about his life and security experience. Sounded somewhere between James Bond and John Rambo. There's probably a tablet for whatever ails him.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Also, where did the 69 number even come from? All the newspaper reports I'm seeing, tabloid mainly, are talking about 34 and up to 50 local people protesting. Sounds like the most likely scenario regarding that video is the correct one: putting a reasonable appearance on talking out of his arse.

[hellfire]

At least you could never have been accused of the reasonable appearance bit 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Anyway, turns out any "concerns" about burdens on non-existent amenities and services have been, unsurprisingly, just a smokescreen (albeit potentially an unconscious one, if I wish to appear reasonable  ). Spokesperson for protestors tells The Clare Echo; "If they were Ukrainian families at least we could try to integrate them into the community" directly after claiming they had no problem with housing people but "the issue" with welcoming these men is that "there isn't amenities" for them.
https://twitter.com/CDeB3232/status/1659141538910175232

 

[hellfire]

This is one of those annual occasions I agree with you. This "lack of consultation" thing is crap too. You don't want them there, just say so.

[astfgyl]

Lol looks like they walked into that one!

I still stand by everything I said in my long reply above though, with or without the crazy people.

[nukeabuse]

"i have sons a few years younger and a few years older than that lad.  Whether they were queers or not, I wouldn't let them out of the house with long pink hair - that's just asking for trouble"

Dragging this convo back a little bit always pisses me off hearing shit like that from people in a supposedly alternative outsider scene. Kinda shit I'm sure most of our parents woulda said about long hair/piercings/tats/skulls and devil worship tshirts. 'you wouldn't get grief if you just looked normal' attitude is pretty antithetical to the whole metal scene is it not

[Caomhaoin]

You'd be pissing into the wind anyway. My auld lad grew up listening to Sabbath, Horslips and Rory Gallagher in a very conservative, religious house yet told me 'get that shit out of my house' when he saw a few of my CDs lying around when I was a teenager. It was just a story to tell lads, and he knew he was at nothing.

I 'caught' my young lad watching that Disney show Strange World or whatever it's called with the interracial gay story and I said 'what is this?, turn that shite off!', he, quite literally, laughed in my face and he's 10.

Best you can do is guide them as best you can, they are who they are. Chris' Ma surely realised this when he started going on about the means of production at age 7, or mine when I started drawing Totenkopfs on my copybooks at the same vintage