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I've no issue with metal heads arguing over this stuff,  everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to have that creepy Finnish retard interloping into a scene he so evidently despises, and throwing his weight around as though he is a paragon of virtue,  that I will never accept. The man is scum. He's hated in the punk scene,  but he happens to be friends with the 'right' people there so he somehow gets a pass. Not here. Fuck him.

I don't disdain the metal scene, just laughing at people who bend over backwards to relitigate reality to match their regressive views.

Also I'm having a lot of fun in the punk scene as well as metal gigs. I don't think I've heard anyone else proclaim hate towards me than you.  I'm not sure what your goal is but you sure have found a project for yourself now it seems.

You arrogant fucking scum. Stay in your fucking deluded safe space scene where you are protected by your friends, you dirty fucking animal.

Strong words right there. I think you might be confusing me with someone else since I don't see why you would know anything about my "actions" and I have no idea what you are referring to.

But everything is war I guess 

Are those Hatebreed lyrics?

[HILARIOUS]

So we have Finnish antifa (or antifa adjacent) on here to gloat after Irelands biggest metal band were forced to pull out of a festival by their low, classless shit stirring.

No one is pulling out cos they are sharing a festival bill with Graveland or whoever.  Its because your sneaky, underhand, anonymous threats would put these bands touring futures (and thus, very existence) in jeopardy.

Initially I was a bit disappointed Primordial didn't have the balls to stand up to these nihilists (and affirm their own lyrics in the most triumphant way in the process) but on reflection I cannot blame them and if in their shoes would surely have done the same. Backed in to a corner they had to choose the lesser of two evils. The risk of standing proud and then seeing the 30 year career of the band fading under the suffocating cloak of cancel culture was too great. I would say privately they are seething.

This Finnish antifa dickhead though (well spotted Chris) - what is your game?

What are your motivations? What are your values? In what do you believe?

Cos to me, a typical enough Irish centrist, some right views,  some left,  you are doing a disservice to the left. The vast majority people I know hate you guys. You are not winning anybody over. Up to recent years I would have subconsciously considered the left 'the good guys'. Not any more!!!

You are Totalitarian and unrelenting in your outlook with no room for nuance or context. You are anti art.  You are anti freedom of expression. You are anti freedom of thought. You have a puritanical religious zeal which does not sit well with citizens of countries such as ours, which is still recovering from decades of the same.

To hell with you you absolute imposter. True liberal values will recover. Your deranged ideas of liberalism will soon be yesterday's news. Fuck you a thousand times!!!

I don't care about a festival lineup or am i part of some organization you are imagining. But the aftermath and the MWF reaction are just pure edgy teen alt right posturing.

There has been a lot of nazi / fascist / racist stuff out in the open in Finland recently and people are getting tired of it. As I said, the range of people who are not happy about these kinda lineups range from left to center right. However, there was no mob that shut it down. It was the bands themselves. Blame them  and the organizer if you wanna blame someone. But I guess this forum has been so deeply redpilled that the enemy is written in stone. The hyperbole and hysteria is HILARIOUS

Look at yourselves. Even AA isn't blaming "the left" which he usually does when his milk has gone sour or it rains outside.

I would put money on the source of all the commotion being a small group of busy-body self-perceived do-gooders who are obsessed with blame, enemies, and fantasies about slaying those enemies, and of course, blaming everything on "the right".

How touring agents, record labels, and ultimately bands responded to the fall-out, is another matter, but as you see above, I don't think the bands should have their hands washed of the whole affair. I think they should come out and say, "We're able to separate art from artist, but apparently many can't, so we've been requested to cancel our appearance at this festival on threat of a whole world of hassle on us, on our touring agent, and on our record label, from people who just can't let things be." Or, if they do genuinely have a problem with the likes of Graveland, then come out and say, "We won't share a stage with these specific bands" but also be ready to defend why they will share a stage with other bands certain busy bodies think they shouldn't.

You're one of those types, who can't let things be; just couldn't resist jumping in here out of nowhere to stir things up and preach your gospel. And if my gut feeling is correct, it was an almost identical instance that motivated you to manifest last time you appeared on MI to chide and chastise.

It's funny seeing metallers self victimize like this alright.

People from the center and center-right have also been vocal about those things. You are just trying to paint an enemy you want there to exist. I've seen a lot of the metallers (the apolitical types specifically) go from "the left is at it again" to "holy shit the fest really fucked up and playing the victim card now is hilarious" when the facts emerged regarding Steelfest. But you do you, imagination is a wonderful thing!

Sounds like the nihilist bonehead stuff is just pandering for dumb nerds and really it's just a role for them.

Funnily enough, this is exactly what even the likes of Graveland explicitly claim; that it's all just a role, all just part of their art, today at least if not in the past. It's not the scoop you seem to think, and in either case, the folk who want to shut them down (again, I can provide Twitter threads, some of them are in Finnish, but I have a seed of a gut feeling you might speak Suomi) don't want to hear anything about this claim.

Of course it's not a scoop. But reading the thread it seems a lot of folks would rather blame a sock puppet enemy they created. Because what's life without blame, enemies, and fantasies about slaying those enemies, and of course, blaming everything on "the left". Why think for yourself when you have tradition to lean on instead?

They have a great saying in Finnish: "kertaus on opintojen äiti" aka "repetition is the mother of learning" 

Pretty sure I've read those twitter threads. They're very typical twitter stuff, everyone is an asshole and in the end no one changes. Well, except the bands plans it seems, ha!

So why are these supposedly edgy, tough, nihilist labels and bands such wimps about it? Maybe the übermensch bands shoudn't deal with degenerate labels? Some shitty mistakes for supposedly supreme aryan beings!

Sounds like the nihilist bonehead stuff is just pandering for dumb nerds and really it's just a role for them.

As I said, all these points have been covered:

So, if even the biggest bands don't have the integrity to make a statement on separation of art and artist, if that's something they believe in, then I don't know who is ultimately more responsible for the general state of things; the childish torch-brandishing cancel mob, or the "extreme music for extreme placaters" bands. None of the bands who have cancelled have gone so far as to name the bands they supposedly have a problem with, for example, which would be kind of a minimum you would expect if they were genuine and not just worried about the slippery slope; if we say it's because of Nokturnal Mortum, then the mob will jump in saying we should also be condemning Destroyer 666 and Inquisition, and so on.

Some people realize it's a business, some people just blame antifa. You do half and half, mean leftists are the source reason it seem tho 

The point is - there is no way for Antifa to make the decision for the bands. If Antifa has influenced the bands decision, then....well it says it right there.

Which is of course not what happened. Capitalism happened.

If you'd bothered to read the various points on the subject before deciding to pedal in full speed and catastrophically attempt to be a wise-ass, you would have seen that this main point has already been made: that at the end of the day, it's quite possible money decided. How directly money decided presumably depends case to case, but certain touring agents and/or record labels will have more or less ordered the bands to cancel and distance themselves, however ambiguously, from the line-up. I don't think money is the only reason though...

So why did various bands' touring agents and record labels step in this year, when they don't seem to have in 2016 when Graveland last played (taking them as a token for "the most unfrequentable" band on the line-up)? Personally, I would say there's a very good chance that is because of certain, highly motivated "woke" individuals from the nominal far left, that part of it which has abandoned all notion of freedom of expression in art, threatening to smear the touring agents and record labels in question, and basically create a helluva lot of potentially ongoing hassle for them online and elsewhere. Why do I think this? Primarily, because it has happened before, many times and in many places, and secondly because you only have to do a search for "Steelfest" on Facebook or Twitter to be met head on by scores of them, entire Twitter threads dedicated to it. I don't go in for the Antifa label, but that certain individuals are directly or indirectly threatening concerned parties here, I would be very, very surprised to find out that has not been happening.

Wow so much logic. So why are these supposedly edgy, tough, nihilist labels and bands such wimps about it? Maybe the übermensch bands shoudn't deal with degenerate labels? Some shitty mistakes for supposedly supreme aryan beings!

Sounds like the nihilist bonehead stuff is just pandering for dumb nerds and really it's just a role for them.

Maybe the only way to have these bands play is to first stop freedom of speech, since nazi and nazi adjacent bands are so easily crumbled by people saying their opinions on social media 

The tiny violins are so tiny I can't even hear them.

Really. Your point is that a woke leftist anarchist (or whatever projections you have made. hint: even centrists and moderate right wingers have a dislike for nazi stuff) posse has made cruel comments and now black metal has to bow out. Weak stuff innit

This type of pin the tail on the donkey politics is working in Antifa (or the nutty end of the left)'s favour because that's where the pendulum of culture is currently sitting. But as sure as night follows day, the pendulum will swing back in the other direction and then you'll have all these neurotic ejits standing out in the cold with their blindfolds on wondering where all their virtual likes have gone. And you know what? Black metal will still be there. Even the naughty stuff will remain. Maybe it'll live a bit further underground if that even means anything in the age of the Internet. That's about the height of it.

Good night Fruit Bat. Thanks for the mildly diverting entertainment 

M.A.R.P.

Metal Action Role Play? Sounds like a narrative for one alright.

So tell me. Do you blame Antifa for Primordial cancellation? I'm curious.

It's an exaggeration for sure, in a thread that is full of "antifa is directed by soros who is married to bill gates and they control the world with cultural marxism" stuff. Logic has left the board a long time ago.

Using what you see as other people's lack of logic to excuse your own... that's a fail, I'm afraid.

Nah

The point is - there is no way for Antifa to make the decision for the bands. If Antifa has influenced the bands decision, then....well it says it right there.

Which is of course not what happened. Capitalism happened.

Your initial claim above was that, if Antifa were to blame for bands cancelling, then this would have to mean that those bands were taking orders from Antifa.

You can't logically conclude that from the premise, no more than you can conclude that if a witness is to "blame" for a murderer going to prison, this would have to mean that the murderer was taking orders from the witness.

This is pretty basic stuff.

It's an exaggeration for sure, in a thread that is full of "antifa is directed by soros who is married to bill gates and they control the world with cultural marxism" stuff. Logic has left the board a long time ago.

If there is anyone to blame for real, it's the organizer. The bands who cancelled (nearly) all posted something like "we didn't see the whole lineup but now that we do, we're cancelling".  They didn't need "woke army" to tell them that this is no good for them. But sure, the dorks will blame the Smurfs or whatever 

Alternatively you can choose to not blame anyone, shit happens.

Or then you can throw your toys out of the pram and see conspiracies everywhere.

Primordial, Deicide, Moonsorrow etc pulled out, so if Antifa is to blame, Primordial etc are taking orders from Antifa.

Say I whisper to someone's mammy that their wee angel has been spending too much time on certain websites, and say mammy then orders said wee angel to turn off their computer and go out and get some air. Identify the individual in this scenario who is giving the orders; the individual who is taking the orders; and the individual who's to blame.

Might want to work on your logic there batty.

Well if you think Antifa is to blame, tell us all how they forced these bands to cancel. All ears! 

I haven't mentioned Antifa, much less what I think of them. I only pointed out a flaw in your logic, independent of its content.

When a witness testifies against a murderer and the murderer is then sent to prison by a judge, has the witness ordered the prisoner to go to prison?

Spend a little more energy trying to make solid sense and a little less energy trying to be a wise-ass. You ain't quite got the chops.

You didn't prove anything though. If my band cancels a gig, it's our decision, not someone elses. If Deicide cancels Steelfest and edgy simpletons blame Antifa for it, it's just edgy simpleton self deception. Can you come up with a logical chain of actions from "Deicide/Primordial/etc cancelled their show at steelfest" to "Antifa is to blame"? No you won't. That stuff is just hysterical bs with a side flavour of conspiracy mongering

Keyboard Bat is a really shit troll name. Were you really in that much of a hurry to set up your account only yesterday? Surely there has to be better sites to troll on? It's not like this place is buzzing with posts!

Nah, this place is the best for this since it's the thickest social bubble that exists. "Irish metallers except the smart ones who are long gone". A barrel of fish, with clown noses on them  Giggles indeed!

Primordial, Deicide, Moonsorrow etc pulled out, so if Antifa is to blame, Primordial etc are taking orders from Antifa.

Say I whisper to someone's mammy that their wee angel has been spending too much time on certain websites, and say mammy then orders said wee angel to turn off their computer and go out and get some air. Identify the individual in this scenario who is giving the orders; the individual who is taking the orders; and the individual who's to blame.

Might want to work on your logic there batty.

Well if you think Antifa is to blame, tell us all how they forced these bands to cancel. All ears! 

This lad sounds like Chris after about 6 grams of Special
K and a severe knock to the head.

'Sure Primordial are in the Antifa now amirite'

Bee in the bonnet and arguing with fresh air. On ya go son, knock yourself out.

A buncha yas claiming Antifa is to blame. Primordial, Deicide, Moonsorrow etc pulled out, so if Antifa is to blame, Primordial etc are taking orders from Antifa. Or there is a massive cognitive dissonance that you are welcoming so that your dorky ideology stays intact.

Very wimpy.