Just saw this and thought it was funny, wouldn't have thought you'd expect to get paid for making a one off guest appearance, 20 years is a bit late to start complaining, although he does have a book coming out :laugh:.
https://metalinjection.net/latest-news/original-thin-lizzy-guitarist-slams-metallica-says-they-owe-him-money
Might as well start the puns 'It's only Money'.
What a bunch of Vagabonds.
Fuck off, I'm leaving my coat where it is.
Is it the done thing to pay guest musicians when you've flown them in?
Eric Bellend
For Whom Eric Bell Tolls
Am I Eric.....yes I am..
Quote from: Carnage on October 28, 2019, 06:19:19 PM
What a bunch of Vagabonds.
Fuck off, I'm leaving my coat where it is.
Is it the done thing to pay guest musicians when you've flown them in?
I don't think so tbh, like the quote says he was 'quietly expecting about two grand' which sounds like there was never any talk of money, so I don't know why he'd just be expecting it. They flew him in and flew him home, it's not like he lost out on anything.
Dyers Eric.
They sent a private jet for him,id imagine he could have had all the booze and grub he wanted for the day,,a bit of craic is all this was.
He needs to fuck off,if he wanted money he should have asked when contact was firts made.
Comes across as a complete twat. According to the full article "He added: "If Metallica ever asked me to guest with them again, I'd ask for five grand in advance. In cash so I'd know I had it in my pocket"
Yeah, I'd say the chances of that happening again are slim. He wasn't asked to play 'a gig', he was invited to make a guest appearance and seemed to have been fairly well treated. Yeah, they're stinking rich but I wouldn't have thought it commonplace to pay an act for a guest appearance during one song.
The fact that he gets a few pence every time they play the song, every time someone buys the album or (legally) downloads/streams it is escaping him, it seems.
Shame, you hate to see a hero act like a twat. Not that that's a rare thing in fairness, but he always came across well previously.
He makes a living from playing gigs so, in his position, it's not unusual to expect payment. He's not just jamming with some goons in the local pub, though. He should have clarified it all beforehand and he does come across as a tit bringing it up now in that manner. Did he really expect to find a wadge of cash at the bottom of the bag o' 'tallimerch? Ah well.
He could clear two grand no problem if he still has the bag with that story out there now. 'tallica familyah has deep pockets.
Oh yes, Master of Payments.
Bill 'Em All.
Is he still playing? I haven't heard much about for a while, I think the Rory Gallagher festival a few years ago was the last time his name drew my attention.
Quote from: Juggz on October 28, 2019, 11:59:20 PM
He makes a living from playing gigs so, in his position, it's not unusual to expect payment. He's not just jamming with some goons in the local pub, though. He should have clarified it all beforehand and he does come across as a tit bringing it up now in that manner. Did he really expect to find a wadge of cash at the bottom of the bag o' 'tallimerch? Ah well.
He could clear two grand no problem if he still has the bag with that story out there now. 'tallica familyah has deep pockets.
Oh yes, Master of Payments.
Yep, he's a musician, he should get paid considering the wad of money these lads make at every gig, but if you don't set a price what do you expect.
No contract ..... No Recourse* (*ahem ... sorry)
Maybe Bell has some Creeping Debts* (*really sorry)
Quote from: Carnage on October 28, 2019, 11:03:12 PM
The fact that he gets a few pence every time they play the song, every time someone buys the album or (legally) downloads/streams it is escaping him, it seems.
Does he?
Not an expert on how royalties work, but the song wasn't written by Thin Lizzy.
The interpretation wouldn't be enough to get a credit, no? I don't know TBH.
Nah.
Didn't he write the guitar lick?
He wrote the arrangement he gets the royalties.
Quote from: northside hoop on October 29, 2019, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: Carnage on October 28, 2019, 11:03:12 PM
The fact that he gets a few pence every time they play the song, every time someone buys the album or (legally) downloads/streams it is escaping him, it seems.
Does he?
Not an expert on how royalties work, but the song wasn't written by Thin Lizzy.
Wouldn't he get a performers fee still though regardless of writing credit?
QuoteHe wrote the arrangement he gets the royalties.
You don't get royalties for an arrangement. The only thing that is traditionally eligible for copyright is the lyrics and melody of a song. Therefore, if you came up with a chord progression and the vocal melody for a song, you are the writer. Anything added after (a bassline, drums, a keyboard or guitar melody, even a guitar riff etc) is considered an arrangement and does not get you songwriting credits (unless agreed upon by the original songwriter). Basically, whomever writes the first piece of music is the writer. Then whomever writes the lyrics is also a writer. A famous example is Every Breath You Take by The Police. Chord progression and lyrics by Sting and the famous guitar line added afterwards by Andy Summers. Summers does not have a songwriting credit on that song (which apparently still earns Sting a fortune every year) and is famously bitter about it.
Of course we are currently in a flux period right now within the music industry where many frivolous cases are being brought against modern hit songs all the time. Unfortunately some of them have won too which is changing the law a bit, therefore making it much less clear. The Marvin Gaye estate are suing everyone lol. They won perhaps the most high profile case against Robin Thicke for Blurred Lines, claiming Thicke stole the "vibe" of Gaye's song Got to Give it Up (utter bullshit). They've also sued Ed Sheeran, and I think Lizzo. Lizzo is also facing a suit at the minute from Cece Peniston claiming the song Juice steals from her original song Finally (Google it, you'll know it) for stealing the phrase "ya-ya-ee". Uptown Funk has also been sued by every man and his dog now, and at least one case has one (for stealing from the song More Bounce to the Ounce). As long as these frivolous cases keep getting pursued (and won) then people are going to keep hazing and twisting what the law is in order to try and make an easy buck. This paragraph isn't really relevant to Bell/Metallica, it's just a bit more info about copyright if anybody is interested.
QuoteWouldn't he get a performers fee still though regardless of writing credit?
In the sense of Metallica actually paying him to perform live with him, then only if they agree upon it. In terms of his involvement with the Thin Lizzy song, no. He would only get a performers' royalty if the
Thin Lizzy version is played for example on a TV show, or on the radio, or included in a compilation CD. Live doesn't count for this.
Given that the song's well over a century old, and so nowhere near living in copyright territory, surely Lizzy's version (and Bell's instrumentation and particular melody) being so distinctive, I'd be surprised if he wasn't entitled to something from it.
Incidentally, Google the song and it's Metallican't's version that comes up. Fuck off.
When you see "Trad. arranged by ...", the arranger is getting a royalty.
Interesting, I didn't know about the "Trad. arranged by ..." part of it.