Some of my favourite albums are buried in a production that shouldn't have worked but just make them sound even better.
While I wouldn't say Cirith Ungol's King of the Dead is awful by any means, it's clear it's a shoestring job and it sounds all the better for it. Actually it adds a mystique and otherworldly/cavernois vibe to the album that just transports me immediately to dimensions unknown..the stars aligned for it.
Some of my favourite ever music by the Misfits or Samhain is tin can alley stuff but I wouldn't change it for the world.
What are your favourite albums that would have the sound engineers out there reaching for the flamethrower?
Mayhem "Ordo Ad Chao". I fuckin love it and wouldn't have it sound any other way, but from a technical standpoint it is muck. Suits the album down to a tee, and a perfect example of producing to suit an atmosphere rather than a crispy clean product.
Mr. Bungle "California" - in a different aspect, this sounds immaculate and again is made in a very particular way, using the production as an instrument as well as a required process. But Trey Spruance's description of the process (http://www.faithnomorefollowers.com/2019/07/trey-spruance-california-20th.html?m=1) is absolutely demented and would surely drive most modern producers into a fit. It was done all analog, but still used something like 64 tracks a song, manually punching in tracks onto each other, a few lads moving faders to get it to tape right, with spruance basically organising the chaos. The whole linked interview is great anyway if you're a Mr. Bungle fan. Again not bad production, by any means, but unfathomable method.
I could pull 100 older albums out of the hat that sound shocking by modern standards but work great for the music or era, but those are two recent ones I was thinking about.
Under the Sign of the Black Mark sounds like total shit but you'd never have it any other way.
The oomph in the drums really makes up for its basic nature.
90% of my record collection.
The likes of Burzum and Darkthrone made it an art form. Using minimalism in production terms to achieve something that was anachronistic and sounded threatening, cold and anti-social. I remember hearing that stuff on the metal show as a kid and being creeped out by it. I was too young to get it and it affected me to just hear something so cold and ancient sounding. I knew next to nothing about it but the sound made me think it came from some backwards, lawless and dangerous place where life was miserable and medieval. Little did I know that that was the exact effect they were going for. Truly amazing vision.
Megadeth - So Far... So Good... So What!
Way too much reverb, weirdly recorded drums etc but it perfectly captures the feeling that Mustaine was off his nut on lots of drugs. The result is disjointed, manic and claustrophobic sounding but utterly perfect also.
Maidens debut.
This is one of my favourite albums of theirs but I wish the production was more like killers.
Such a flat sound on it and no it doesn't make it better sounding to me. Just sounds shit but the songs are really amazing.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on February 20, 2020, 01:49:52 PM
The likes of Burzum and Darkthrone made it an art form. Using minimalism in production terms to achieve something that was anachronistic and sounded threatening, cold and anti-social. I remember hearing that stuff on the metal show as a kid and being creeped out by it. I was too young to get it and it affected me to just hear something so cold and ancient sounding. I knew next to nothing about it but the sound made me think it came from some backwards, lawless and dangerous place where life was miserable and medieval. Little did I know that that was the exact effect they were going for. Truly amazing vision.
I always wondered about this.
Did they actually know what they were doing or was it just a case of not having any money and just recording on the cheap.
Burzum, for sure, was intentionally shit sounding.
No Place for Disgrace by Flotsam & Jetsam. It's fucking abysmal sounding. Every instrument sounds individually terrible and when you mix them altogether... ouch. Fuck knows what they were thinking but I love that album. They released a re-recorded version a few years ago with a much better mix, it sounds really good, really punchy.
It just doesn't cut it, though. That shit old mix has a vibe about it which you just can't beat.
I'd also nominate everything Michael Rosen produced. He did something horrible to distorted guitars, some awful processing which sucked the life out of them but the thrash stuff he did is timeless.
Bathory
Holy Terror Mind Wars is one where I think a modern clean sound would have detracted from a certain claustraphobia and frenzy that tears from the speakers.
Black metal is almost the opposite of what I'm talking about in that them old Burzum albums would sound ridiculous panned and upfront. Amazing art really when you think of how the 'poor' production became almost as important as the actual music in that regard.
Obituary. Slowly we rot. Love that dank rotten tone on it. The mix/master job they did few years ago proved just how much the original worked.
I always hated the production on Slowly We Rot, it sounds really flat to me. Admittedly, I haven't heard the remaster but I thought Cause Of Death sounded much better, apart from the muffled cymbals (a few of Scott Burns' albums are like this, Human and (the worst culprit) Harmony Corruption spring to mind).
"I always hated the production on Slowly We Rot, it sounds really flat to me. Admittedly, I haven't heard the remaster but I thought Cause Of Death sounded much better, apart from the muffled cymbals (a few of Scott Burns' albums are like this, Human and (the worst culprit) Harmony Corruption spring to mind)."
I just love the murky-ness of it. The remaster is horrible clean flat modern job. It's ok for super tech bands with loads going on in the riffs. Not so much Obituary.
.
Altars Of Madness. It's got a cold, sterile sound - with too much reverb on the vocals - that I don't actually like but I can't imagine a more layered, warmer production suiting it at all. I like it despite its sound.
Symphonies Of Sickness. Too murky for my liking but again, suits the music perfectly, in a way that Necroticism's clearer sound wouldn't.
I think BATS has a worse production, funnily enough, but it wouldn't work without it.
Vampires of Black Imperial Blood
Quote from: Juggz on February 20, 2020, 09:37:43 PM
I think BATS has a worse production, funnily enough, but it wouldn't work without it.
I love the production on that, even it probably qualifies for this thread. Kinda claustraphobic feel to it, especially the drums.
Another one: Horrified. I know it's essentially a demo given a wider release, and so it's basic and raw, but it's absolutely lerfect for it.
Nuclear Assault: Game Over. Really 'dry' sound to that, but it's an almost perfect thrash album (Mr. Softee Theme, eh... what?), as '80s as it gets for me.
Godflesh - Streetcleaner
The minimalist production just adds to the bleakness.
My top pick of the lofi BM stuff would be Filosofem, personally.
And justice for all..
AJFA a great example there. Could only ever associate it with that tin box recording.
Suffocation - Breeding The Spawn. Maybe its the fact that the production on this reminds me of the 'Human Waste' ep, but I love the weird production on this album.
Akercocke - Rape of The Bastard Nazarene. Production is completely lifeless and the drums sound like shite, but it sits really well with the weird Voivod-style riffs on the album.
BEHEXEN "From the Devil's Chalice"
While not that poorly produced, the sound on this is overly bouncy to the point of questioning whether something is up with my headphones. Doesn't detract however as it is just a brilliant example of the style.
I'm really not a fan of the production on Focus by Cynic, but can't imagine it any other way
A lot of the early thrash stuff had fairly ropey production, Hell Awaits, Pleasure to Kill... wouldn't have them any other way though
Devin Townsend - "Physicist"
I love it, and it suits the overall tone of the album, but it is technically awful and generally wouldn't work at all with anything else. But it makes that album what it is, rough and ragged but overblown and pure Devy. From reading online it seems he hates it now and thinks the production is atrocious. I even prefer the old version of Kingdom on it, the new ones are too polished.
Blasphemy: Fallen Angel Of Doom....
I'm really not a fan of Scott Burns production at all, but he produced some of my favourite metal albums. Morbid angel, death, sepultura etc. These are good despite the production though and you've just grown up with them that way. If they had better production initially, fuck knows how good they could have been.
In the case of Burzum and the likes, the minimalist production goes hand in hand with the material and enhances it somewhat. Filosofem really has that ancient, hypnotic vibe. Nattens madrigal and pure holocaust are also great examples of raw recordings where the riffs really stand out and the production just suits the pace and atmosphere of the music.
Anybody have any links to any of the early BM bands discussing their recording techniques and aesthetic choices regarding their production? I was always of the mind that at the genres inception the cold nasty production was a happy conincedence rather than something deliberate and would love some insight from the minds behind such a genre defining approach to production.
I remember reading an interview with Vikernes where he talked about using the studio headphones as a microphone (they're essentially the same concept just polar opposite design intention, a vibrating diaphragm which converts a sound to electrical energy vs a vibrating diaphragm which converts electrical energy into sound) which will work as a mic, but badly, and a crap amp. In fact, it might not even have been a guitar amp but running the guitar through a shit hi-fi or something along those lines. I have no idea where to find the interview, however.
Now that you mention it I think I recall seeing that as well as an interview with fenriz talking about his old tape decks. Will do some digging so!
Ride for Revenge - The King of snakes is an album that comes to mind. A barbaric and primative production for a barbaric and primative album.
I completely agree. The King of Snakes is one of the most original and unique sounding records in black metal. Still their best work.
Quote from: Yolo Swaggins on February 21, 2020, 02:28:09 PM
Now that you mention it I think I recall seeing that as well as an interview with fenriz talking about his old tape decks. Will do some digging so!
A whole section on it in Until the Light Takes Us
Quote from: Eoin McLove on February 21, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
I completely agree. The King of Snakes is one of the most original and unique sounding records in black metal. Still their best work.
I actually think it was you who put me onto them on the old forum. Much obliged.
Cheers for the until the light takes us shout, I don't think I ever did get round to watching it. Or if I did I didn't commit it to memory.
https://youtu.be/wKZx3uOZt6s
Varg talking about recording the Burzum.
Reverorum ib Malacht - Dé Mysteriis dom Christi is an obvious one, so murky and muddy sounding but a brilliant album
I hesitate to put Watchtower's Control and Resistance in this thread..an incredible album, the production is uffff, unusual to say the least, very tinny. It all works, I love it, but does the production 'help' the album or the music in general? Does it create it's own atmosphere? Undoubtedly. That said, I would love to hear them instruments way closer in my ear...ahhh a conundrum, and exactly the conundrum I was posing in creating the thread.
Control and Resistance is perfect. It's only the guitar which is unusual but, given how Jarzombeck plays, it is an ideal solution to such a unique player. If it were any more beefy the arse would drop out of it when he moved off the low strings, which he does a lot. The bass and drums are all of the meat on that one. The guitar is allowed float over the top. It's a great production.
You're right, the guitar would die a death..so a non-questionable recording. Jesus what an album.
Anacrusis - Manic Impressions is similar to that. Just a very weird tinny production yet which seems to fit perfectly with the also very odd music, and especially vocals.
Quote from: Pedrito on February 21, 2020, 09:47:32 PM
You're right, the guitar would die a death..so a non-questionable recording. Jesus what an album.
Still nothing else like it
How about Leprosy and Spiritual Healing? Objectively, they sound fucking terrible, but they're perfect. They could not sound any other way.
Nothing wrong with those I'd have said, though the drums on Leprosy sound very artificial, the snare anyway. Couldn't imagine it sounding any better, personally.
Quote from: Pagan Waltar on February 21, 2020, 09:16:01 AM
BEHEXEN "From the Devil's Chalice"
While not that poorly produced, the sound on this is overly bouncy to the point of questioning whether something is up with my headphones. Doesn't detract however as it is just a brilliant example of the style.
They fucked up the production on this by accident I can't remember the exact story but I think the mastering or something was done wrong and by the time the mistake was discovered it was too late to go back and redo everything.
It's probably my favourite Behexen release after Nightside and usually the first thing I go to when I decide to listen to the band.
Quote from: Motörbastard on February 21, 2020, 12:46:29 PM
Blasphemy: Fallen Angel Of Doom....
The production for me is what ruins this album anytime I want to listen to the band I either go for one of the recent live albums or the rehearsal that came with the Friday the 13th die hard LP.
The Ruins of Beverast - Rain Upon the Impure
Alex himself admitted he didn't have a clue what he was doing when recording/mixing this album, but it is perfectly suited. The combo of roomy, really distant drums with guitars mudded out t'fuck give such a sense of scale. It puts you right at the edge of the vast murky landscape depicted on the cover.
I listened to Leprosy this morning for the first time in ages and that snare is horrific.
Darkthrone ' "goatlord" is an odd one- one of my favourite records ever, bit is a rehearsal recording on a four track. I cant imagine those songs recorded in a proper studio though,the recording is a big factor in why its such a creepy sounding record to me
This morning, I've been listening to a few of Rick Rubin's productions from the late 80's. He had a quare oul drum sound he frequently used, very dull thuds unlike the actual sound of a kit and often obvious overdubs panned unusually but really up front in the mix. It's probably something he brought over from hip-hop. The likes of The Cult - Electric, Danzig - s/t, Masters of Reality - s/t, Wolfsbane Live Fast, Die Fast... I can't imagine them any other way but they sound... unusual, let's say.
Actually, add South of Heaven to that. It's got almost as little bass as AJFA but gets none of the jip. It's all huge bass drums and thin, mid-heavy guitars. Jump from a track from Reign in Blood to something on SOH and you'll see what I mean. It still sounds fantastic, provided you don't leap into it from something with some low end.
Shonky as Rubin could be, RIB and Trouble - s/t are two of his and two of my favourite sounding albums ever.
Yep South of Heaven struck me as just oddd the first time I ever listened to it back as a pimply, self-fiddling teenager. Interesting that you would say Danzig because, yes, they have a lot in common in terms of the production, how clear and yet almost dead sounding the guitars and drums are. Probably not describing it too well here, but yes there's a lot in common there with AJFA now that you mention it. Just looking at the list of albums Rubin has produced...wow. Californication by RHCP has that kinda deadened, but clear tone aswell. Just class.
On a separate note 'South of Heaven' must be the greatest album title ever..East of Eden, West of Memphis, South of Heaven. Might create a separate thread on that one :laugh:
I think South Of Heaven's the best they've ever sounded, personally (both the songs and the production). RIB's sound isn't far behind but SOH pips it for me, any day of the week.
madder mortems first album mercury has a fairly light production and they said they really wanted it to sound way more aggressive but i love the way it gives it a dreamy kind of feel to the songs.
they re-recorded a couple of those tracks only last year and while they sound really good and beefed up i still prefer the originals.
South of Heaven has the best drum sound you'll ever hear, amazing!
It's something very special indeed. The high hats, everything, are just crystal clear in your ears. Silent Scream is a great example of what you're talking about, you almost feel like you're in the room with Lombardo. My first Slayer album and will always be my favourite.
Aye, it sounds amazing because the other instruments have been cleared out of the way to make room for them, particularly the bass guitar. The same thing was done on AJFA to make the bass drums stand out more but Metallica had massively mid-scooped guitars which had a healthy amount of low end, whereas Slayer went the other way and made the guitars all mid, so the bass drums stood out even more. All the low frequencies on SOH are coming from the bass drums, quite similar to some of the early hip-hop stuff he produced.
Quote from: Juggz on February 21, 2020, 10:05:30 PM
How about Leprosy and Spiritual Healing? Objectively, they sound fucking terrible, but they're perfect. They could not sound any other way.
I'll grant that Leprosy is fairly mushy but Spiritual Healing has always sounded great to my ears! KRUNCH!
I think each instrument sounds quite crap, individually, and it sounds quite sterile overall but it's a classic album and you can't imagine it being any different. Imagine that sound on any other album :)
I can imagine Leprosy sounding like it, and being better for it!
:laugh: Ah man, that terrible crack-of-thunder snare is the making of Leprosy, it makes the album
Ah lads ye couldn't have Leprosy sounding any other way than it does. Very much a product of it's time and fantastically blurring the lines between death and thrash.
Hypocrisy are a band that absolutely fall into the questionable production category but so many of those earlier albums still sound savage even though something feels a bit amiss in the sound
5 pages in and nobody has mentioned Carcass - Reek Of Putrefaction yet? It definitely has to be up there, the band themselves hated the production and blamed the engineer but the sound is so raw and primitive I can't imagine it sounding any different. it's not hard to see how its often credited for creating Goregrind.
Shit album though.
I've been thinking about the lo fi black metal albums. At this stage are they really questionable productions? I would have thought it was the norm by now.
It's more of an aesthetic decision than a lack of ability when it comes to raw BM.
Stumbled across this recently, a remix of the stems available for Blackened. It's worth a listen as, instead of just turning the bass up far too loud as every other video I've watched does, he mixes it in a way which is sympathetic to the original sound but also a far better mix in general. The best that song has ever sounded, I put it to yizzers. No excuse at all for those cunts not doing this as part of the super ultra deluxe box set a few years ago. Newsted was and is a beast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK1nQp1Hb_0
And what he did and why, if you're into that kind of thing (which I am :laugh: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZE22amj1uU
Quote from: Bürggermeister on July 28, 2025, 04:02:45 PMStumbled across this recently, a remix of the stems available for Blackened. It's worth a listen as, instead of just turning the bass up far too loud as every other video I've watched does, he mixes it in a way which is sympathetic to the original sound but also a far better mix in general. The best that song has ever sounded, I put it to yizzers. No excuse at all for those cunts not doing this as part of the super ultra deluxe box set a few years ago. Newsted was and is a beast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK1nQp1Hb_0
And what he did and why, if you're into that kind of thing (which I am :laugh: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZE22amj1uU
Really enjoyed that vid, thanks! Never realized Jason's bass playing was so ferocious!
You sort of have to admire the absolutely stonewall resistance that they've shown in never ever under any circumstances allowing the album to be mixed with bass in it in any official capacity. They're fucking determined
I fucking love Reek, grew up with it and can't imagine it with "proper" production. Absolutely blew my fucking mind when it came out. Funnily enough I watched some guy do a "ten iconic gridncore riffs" type video last night, and he played "Carbonized Eyesockets" I realised in the 35 or whatever years I've been listening to that album, it was the first time I'd actually ben able to make out the riff.
"Fallen Angel" is the same for me as well, it just sounds so evil to me even now.
This is definitely another old childhood favourite which rivals it for the combination of awful production and sheer sloppiness, but is just as endearing to me
https://youtu.be/kZbEqWkwS8k?si=3DWe5H4h3lx2XMkj
To be fair though, the vocals are indefensible.
"Dawn Of Possession" is another album i've heard people gripe over the production of for years, I think it sounds perfect.
Wha! If I was releasing death metal I'd want it to sound like Dawn of Possession!
Maybe not an overall production thing but the fucked up drums on Dance of December Souls and Reflections of the Solstice make those records. But that might be for another thread..
Divine Intervention has the misfortune of not having Andy Wallace involved with it.
Quote from: Mithrandir on July 28, 2025, 11:29:22 PMWha! If I was releasing death metal I'd want it to sound like Dawn of Possession!
Maybe not an overall production thing but the fucked up drums on Dance of December Souls and Reflections of the Solstice make those records. But that might be for another thread..
The production on Dance and Reflections is certainly a big part of the appeal. Same for Drawing Down the Moon. The levels are all over the gaff.
Great 3 examples and ill throw in the obvious Filosofem too.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on July 28, 2025, 04:02:45 PMAnd what he did and why, if you're into that kind of thing (which I am :laugh: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZE22amj1uU
This was a great run through, good find. Love these sorts of breakdowns of mixes when they are done well.
the reverse intro to blackened might be my favourite 30 seconds of music. It just changes my bodies chemistry. :laugh:
I don't know how Dawn Of Possession can be considered to have questionable production.
It's sounds savage, the quintessential Death Metal sound.
Yeah there's such a dark otherworldly feel to it that's unlike anything else
100% agree.
There are some albums that have a poor production that add to the charm and help capture a time and place, One Voice by Agnostic Front.
It's trying way too hard to sound like a metal album but I'm so used to it I couldn't imagine it any other way.
Dawn Of Possession though. There has to be bands that would kill to get that exact sound.
Metallica's AJFA sounds just fine to me. OG vinyl copy, guitars have the beef, you know the bass is there. Even Newsted is baffled by all the hate, there is an interview with him saying (paraphrasing) "it sounds exactly the way it was supposed to when it came out and made an impact on the world".
Quote from: Circlepit on July 29, 2025, 12:46:14 AMI don't know how Dawn Of Possession can be considered to have questionable production.
It's sounds savage, the quintessential Death Metal sound.
Yep, fecking hell, it's up there with Diabolical Conquest and Severed Survival as one of my favourite-sounding DM albums.
Dawn of possession is perfect.
Amorphis-Tales
Thinny production , but it works.
Quote from: Paul keohane on July 29, 2025, 06:23:51 PMDawn of possession is perfect.
Amorphis-Tales
Thinny production , but it works.
Ah yeah, the production on Tales is fine.
It's the music is the problem :laugh:
When the best track is a crappy Doors cover, you know it's a bad album.
Nuclear Assault: Game Over
The songs definitely outshine the production (which is terrible).
The guitar sound is a but weird alright but it's my favourite thrash album so couldn't find fault with it.