Are we all fucked?

[astfgyl]

Yeah, fair solutions like that rather than strict ideology

[hellfire]

A mix of socialism and capitalism is essentially what we have here already. The problem is that it's very poorly implemented. In Ireland it seems to be that some have to pay and some are entitled to be paid for. There is no way that a healthy person my age could have been out of work for more than five years of the last twenty.

The tax the rich mentality doesn't work for me. It's assumed that people get rich by some sort of theft or deception. In times gone by a poor person had no chance of a decent education. This meant that moving up in income was significantly less likely. The same could not be said here now. Welfare should be unattractive and a short term safety net. At no point should it be a lifestyle choice. Proper business regulations would be as far as I'd go on the whole corporations thing.

[astfgyl]

I don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/08/business/ireland-global-tax-deal-oecd/index.html

On new international laws for taxing multinationals agreed last year, once notably Ireland had finally gotten on board.

Originally, the loophole was there because otherwise those corporations wouldn't be in Ireland in the first place, and you can see in that article to what extent they have come to dominate employment:

The new rate would apply to 1,556 multinationals based in Ireland, employing about 400,000 people.

[hellfire]

I don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.

As I said at the end proper business regulations would sort most things. Another term for what you're saying is welfare capitalism. Socialism comes with a lot of communist baggage these day or the idea that everyone is entitled to the same regardless of skill or effort.

[hellfire]

I don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.

As I said at the end, proper business regulations would sort most things. Another term for what you're saying is welfare capitalism. Socialism comes with a lot of communist baggage these day or the idea that everyone is entitled to the same regardless of skill or effort.

[Caomhaoin]

If anyone is interested in life in the Soviet Union in the 70's, I recommend Kapucinski's 'Imperium'. Fantastic book.

On YouTube you have that 'Ushanka Show' which is also cool, Ukrainian lad who grew up in the USSR.

But what you say is correct, and I've heard from a good pal who grew up in Yugoslavia and my ex's mother who was born and raised in socialist Poland. Why bother innovating or working hard when the government has a monopoly on everything? Wait ten years for an even shittier version of a bad fiat and no access to basic consumer items because of political ideology?

Of course that didn't all apply to Yugoslavia and their 'third way'. They became quite prosperous before it consumed itself, or was it marked for destruction by the Americans?

[astfgyl]

I don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.

As I said at the end, proper business regulations would sort most things. Another term for what you're saying is welfare capitalism. Socialism comes with a lot of communist baggage these day or the idea that everyone is entitled to the same regardless of skill or effort.

Ok welfare capitalism sounds good as long as it's for the welfare of the worker and those who genuinely can't work. A bit of wealth transfer in the other direction might be nice for a change rather than handouts just make the place work in a fair way where our taxes are put to our use.

It is after all our money that the government are spending. What they're at now it's like if the wife sent me for the weekly shop but I just bought myself a load of drink and hash with the money and told her I was doing it for her

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If anyone is interested in life in the Soviet Union in the 70's, I recommend Kapucinski's 'Imperium'. Fantastic book.

And this is regarding what? Don't know how I always get flagged the tangential one when you're constantly bringing up your eastern european anecdotes at the drop of a hat 

Immigration = great replacement theory
Socialism = USSR
Every angle contrary to that = a tangent 

[astfgyl]

Well the replacement theory has a grain of truth in there like all the best theories. Isn't it in Ireland's interests to bring in lots of young cheap labour, to both pay the pensions and devalue the local labour? Yknow to keep the boot stamping on the face so to speak

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Not getting into immigration again, but socialism, democratic socialism, is not sovietism. Doesn't mean you have to like democratic socialism, but argue against that, not straw men.

[Caomhaoin]

I am certainly the tangential one.

But you argue you like a particularly cunning politician

[astfgyl]

Not getting into immigration again, but socialism, democratic socialism, is not sovietism. Doesn't mean you have to like democratic socialism, but argue against that, not straw men.

No I don't really want to get into it either only to say it's not a black and white argument if you'll excuse the pun.

I'm all for fairness, whatever that means

[astfgyl]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff

Some people seem to think they are. I agree.

Dig the cunts out

[Ollkiller]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/08/business/ireland-global-tax-deal-oecd/index.html

On new international laws for taxing multinationals agreed last year, once notably Ireland had finally gotten on board.

Originally, the loophole was there because otherwise those corporations wouldn't be in Ireland in the first place, and you can see in that article to what extent they have come to dominate employment:

The new rate would apply to 1,556 multinationals based in Ireland, employing about 400,000 people.

Sp the rate goes from 12.5 to 15 percent. Its the right policy but the tax rate should be the same for a corporation as it is for a normal person. And have bands. 15 percent up between 1 and 10 million in profits.Then higher after that, 30% or so. Now I do realise we've benefitted the most from out 12.5% rate. But the policy has to be worldwide to work. Then both corporations and government have plenty of money. Then everyone would see a far better standard of living.