Controversy In Metal?

[Pentagrimes]

Of course, the album even got pulled from being played on the sound cellar top ten on the John Kenny show on Sunday's back when it came out because of the cover and lyrics. In the internet age when the most extreme images, videos and other content are a click away people are far more desensitised to things that would have been outrageous in the mid to late 90's.

HA!I wrote John Kenny a sweaty complaint letter about this and got an equally sweaty letter back on headed RTE paper!

[hellfire]

Haha, I would kill to have seen that. Was there ever a record kept of the Sound Cellar top 10's kept anywhere? Emailed about it a few years ago and never got a reply.

[Cryptic Stench]

A few hoave made the point that it's fish in a barrell when it comes to Anti Christian Sentiment, and correct Behemoth would've generated more heat a couple of decades earlier. But surely there's other buttons to push. With some genres it's part and parcel of the package, the sense of rebellion is important and part of the attraction for getting into some of this stuff. Part of the reason for picking up a copy of Butchered at Birth as a 14 year old was I knew it would piss my parents off!

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Which buttons though? People saying that anti-Muslim metal would generate as much controversy today as (explicitly or implicitly) anti-Christian metal did back in the 80s and 90s, but that couldn't be any less true. It would only make sense for those of Muslim heritage, otherwise - almost by definition - it's not rebellion, it's antagonism of an either remote or minority group. Having a pop at Jesus and company back in the day was David versus Goliath. Goliath has fallen and - as far as I can see - not been replaced, though perhaps some much smaller giants have tried.

[M Void]

Well you say that but in the current climate a proper anti Muslim in most countries in Western Europe could lead to possible police investigation and conviction which is more than any anti Christian band would have had to deal with in the same territories.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well you say that but in the current climate a proper anti Muslim in most countries in Western Europe could lead to possible police investigation and conviction which is more than any anti Christian band would have had to deal with in the same territories.

But it wouldn't resonate with as many people or to the same visceral extent. The average western teenager can't identify with lyrics of rebellion against Mohammed. The whole satanic scare thing resonated long and hard because it was a threat from within, taking tropes and imagery that had been passed down to scare people into submission and worshipping them instead. Sure, there'd be a clamour if a band started cursing Islam in their lyrics, but their sympathetic fan base would be quite a particular bunch.

[M Void]

I'm far past the point of knowing what any teenager can identify with unfortunately but if a metal band appeared now in Western Europe genuinely attacking Islam in the same way black metal bands in the past and currently (I'm talking in lyrics and imagery, not actual physical acts like church burning) they would be treated as pariahs, be listed as a "hate" group and risk serious legal action which is something anti Christian bands in the same regions never had to deal with so I would consider it far more of a controversial thing.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

But they would remain totally fringe with respect to mainstream morality. Metal, back in the day, was a strike, from within, right at the very foundational principles of mainstream morality. This hypothetical band would get their 15 minutes. The satanic scare lasted that many years.

[M Void]

Mainstream morality is the reason releasing an album of that type would be met with more than just moral outrage but actual legal ramifications.

[The Butcher]

Mainstream morality is the reason releasing an album of that type would be met with more than just moral outrage but actual legal ramifications.

Or they will get nominated for a Spellemann award.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3OP-dgNspo

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Mainstream morality is the reason releasing an album of that type would be met with more than just moral outrage but actual legal ramifications.

What I'm trying to get across is that measuring controversy should also include a measure of how many people it resonates with in a positive way, how many people it subverts to its cause. Madonna was controversial in a time when hardcore porn was already available on VHS. Why? Because she was a subversive threat to millions. It was the same with metal. Sure, if a band tortured someone and recorded the screams as their vocals, that would be controversial. But who'd be behind them? Who would they get resonating on the same wave as them? They'd be thrown in jail and forgotten about. So, from that point of view, anti-Muslim metal could never be as "controversial" as anti-Christian metal was. Legislation against certain speech against Islam doesn't make Islam the establishment.

[M Void]

I understand what you're saying, just my opinion that it's a much more controversial thing than being anti Christian was in the 90's when I started listening to extreme metal around '94. No issue with you disagreeing with that.

As for that award nomination, I googled and see it was in 2012. Making those statements then and now are two completely different things. Already a different age. No way it would happen now.

[The Butcher]

As for that award nomination, I googled and see it was in 2012. Making those statements then and now are two completely different things. Already a different age. No way it would happen now.

How far do you want to move the goalposts on this? 

Turkish black metal band Sarinvomit talking about anti-islamic messages in their lyrics in 2015 ->

"Because it is our originality I mean, if we used inverted crosses and... churches being burned in our covers, it would mean nothing in this country. And since we are from here, since we are against... we are provocative against the traditions of this country and this society. So it is very normal, actually, to me, to use traditional symbols of this country and the religion of this country."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3utTufV5ehs

Don't tell me 3 years ago is a different age as well, the point is - it is happening now and in countries less tolerant. Which touches on BSC point of this usually happening within countries of that tradition (which is what that Turkish band states).

[M Void]

There's no moving goal posts, I just said a band making anti Islamic statements would not be nominated for a Grammy in Norway in 2018.

[Hambeast]

The Meads of Asphodel always deal with fairly controversial topics. Fantastic band but they never seem to get the attention they deserve.

They had their Jihad album back in 2002 which dealt with a load of stuff in the middle east. - https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/The_Meads_of_Asphodel/Jihad_-_Freezing_Moon/32773



More recently they've hard their "The Murder of Jesus the Jew" album, dealing with the Jewish roots of Christianity



And Sonderkommando which is about the holocaust