NZ terrorist attack

[Eoin McLove]

That's absurd.  I read the Peterson book and it's essentially a self help guide.  There is no political angle or incitement to hatred whatsoever in the book.  It's not even vaguely misogynistic despite apparently being aimed solely at men (it's not).

[hellfire]

Welcome to modern day liberalism. Everyone who doesn't conform needs to be banned. The deaths of fifty people represents nothing but leverage to promote your horseshit. He objected to government legislation forcing him to use made up pronouns. He's obviously as bad as the gunman himself.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Seems the main objection stemmed from a promo tour photo of him with his arm around an adult man wearing an "I'm a proud Islamophobe" t-shirt, easily found online. I'm sure the book ban will be rolled back, just a knee-jerk thing, no point knee-jerking back at it.

[DeletedUsermNqGIiIuGy]

Seems the main objection stemmed from a promo tour photo of him with his arm around an adult man wearing an "I'm a proud Islamophobe" t-shirt, easily found online. I'm sure the book ban will be rolled back, just a knee-jerk thing, no point knee-jerking back at it.

I searched for that picture.. then I did a silly thing and started reading the comments under it.... jesus wept 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Just checked there to see if the bookstore have given any more statements on their position and stumbled upon this. I mean, sure, the liberal left is full of clowns, but please let's not forget about the absolute fucking state of the conservative right:


https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/troubling-signs-new-zealand-shooting-is-being-used-to-turn-my-country-into-islamic-state
"What I see unfolding seems so disproportionate to the magnitude of the crime."

You have to be seriously special to come out with a phrase that in any way minimizes the "magnitude of the crime" when said crime is utterly unprecedented in your country's recent (i.e. not since the end of WWII) history, a history notably devoid of Islamist terror attacks. Then, on the list of "disproportionate" things she lists, only the Peterson bookstore thing isn't a more or less masked statement of Islamophobia.

[hellfire]

Seems the main objection stemmed from a promo tour photo of him with his arm around an adult man wearing an "I'm a proud Islamophobe" t-shirt, easily found online. I'm sure the book ban will be rolled back, just a knee-jerk thing, no point knee-jerking back at it.

Getting a picture taken with someone in a dodgy shirt means a self help book needs to be banned. Modern day leftism needs to die. I would be more concerned if it was Amazon, Apple or Google play banning it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Of course it's no good reason to ban a book, it just hadn't been mentioned. As I said, personally I think the ban will be rolled back. People react in funny ways to extreme circumstances.

[Pedrito]

Have a listen to Sam Harris on this topic. I may not always agree with him but I find him to be quite a reasoned individual who actually thinks things through before he speaks. Listen to what he says about the creation of the word 'islamaphobia', listen to the menace that seems to surround him, the lists, the death threats..I think it's all very relevant. A pregnant Chelsea Clinton was cornered by a bunch of little bastards the other day who shouted her down and made her apologise for things she had said that somehow they have connected to muslims getting shot in NZ..yes Chelsea Clinton, who has never said a negative thing in her life.

Jordan Peterson, again a fairly mild mannered and educated guy, who has the good sense to push back on government when they tell us what we should and should not be saying..death threats, bannings etc etc.

https://youtu.be/DqOdDV7Brq4


It all reminds me of the 'shame' scene in GOT but while Cersei was a bitch, and the viewer might have enjoyed it, the menace, the nastiness, the resentment, the irrational shouting and screaming, the unwillingness to listen objectively to other points of view or have a civilised debate..it's very disturbing.

We have always had fringe lunatics on the right. People who literally just hate anything of difference. What is worrying is that the left are now taking up that mantle..the nastiness, the destruction of individuals, the yearning to have their enemies submit and repent.

I'm reading Nietzsche's Anti-Christ at the moment, and I can't help but see massive parallels between 'the priest'of old and some of these modern groups. The controlling of the moral code, sin, repentance, the attacking of foundational social values...PUNISHMENT.

If it have learnt anything in my life, it's to be very wary of big social movements, when everyone goes up I'll go down and vice versa. Time to buy a plot of land, grow my own food and home school my future kids...or maybe just turn off the tv, stop looking at the internet and fucking enjoy my life

[hellfire]

I would be much less optimistic. Leftism is behaving more and more like a religion these days. Bans set a precedent rather than get revoked. Still, it's a private retailer. I would find it more worrying if it were state enforced.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Have a listen to Sam Harris on this topic. [...] Listen to what he says about the creation of the word 'islamaphobia'

The comments on the link I posted were actual Islamophobia though, in the sense that they were written by a Christian conservative who genuinely hates Islam for the simple reason that it's not Christianity qua "the gospel". Harris is certainly right about how the word is often used. But it's no different to how "anti-Semitism" can often be used to refer to "anti-Zionism", a situation which does not mean that anti-Semitism does not exist. I've never really cared for Harris or any of the other "horsemen" ( ) of atheism when they take on religion, whether that be Islam or Christianity or whatever. I've always felt that the net result of their particular approach could be nothing other than arming bitter angsty types with rhetoric they barely understand, on the one hand, and riling up a mixture of naïve and innocent and naïve and aggressive believers, on the other hand.

Harris is not to blame for these shootings. He is responsible for an awful lot of pseudo-intellectual bullying through his listenership though, as is Peterson. People like this should address their followers in no uncertain terms when the latter act like morons... hence why, if Peterson speaks against intolerance in 12 Rules (which his followers were quick to point out after the banning of his book in the NZ bookstore chain), he should have admonished the middle-aged man who was wearing the t-shirt in the photo, and been wise enough not to be snapped in what was obviously going to be perceived as apparent approval of the sentiment expressed: "I'm a proud Islamophobe."

Idiots, it is widely believed, should be held accountable for their idiocy. Likewise, people who present themselves as public figures of reason and wisdom, should be held to a much, much higher standard.

[kamen]

The comments on the link I posted were actual Islamophobia though, in the sense that they were written by a Christian conservative who genuinely hates Islam for the simple reason that it's not Christianity qua "the gospel".

LifeSiteNews is obviously a Christian/Catholic site, and while the idea that the shooting is "being used to turn [NZ] into Islamic State" may seem overblown, the reaction of the NZ authorities has been excessive and even hysterical, and it is pretty clear that the atrocity is being used as justification to bring in some decidedly "illiberal" measures, particularly on speech. I see little to disagree with in the article itself.

The accusation of "Islamophobia" is another weapon in the Leftist armoury, along with "xenophobia", "misogyny", "homophobia", "transphobia", etc, being used to destroy the reputations of those who express concerns about where we are being taken. And the deconstruction/destruction of meaning ushered in by the "left" over the last couple of decades has left language and words very slippery, with accusations amenable to being ascribed any form depending on circumstances. Everything is about power now, not honest debate or meaning.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, here is the "Proud Islamophobe" t-shirt talked about above. Is there anything on that list that is not inherent to fundamentalist Islam? Is there anything on it that non-Muslims would agree with, or not be concerned about, or that would not cause them to be fearful of having people who hold such views in their country? And would any such "Islamophobia" be rational or irrational?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well, we're obviously coming at this from a very different set of values, but what you've got going on there is a whole lot of conflation, the t-shirt too is a hotch-potch conflation of numerous cultural assimilations, etc. And without even getting into a debate about the rationality of a t-shirt, I believe the bar for people like Peterson should be wisdom.

[Pedrito]

I hear you Chris and I think you are right to question figures like Harris and Peterson who need to be more careful with who and what they are associating with. A tshirt like that does nothing but stir up shit, and certainly, Peterson, with the power that he has should be aware of that. That said, I like the man, I think he's got guts, and moreso, I think we needed him and people like him. I like that he has put himself out there and that many people are using him as a bridge into deeper topics. I think the mainstream has become so anti intelligence, anti discourse, anti academia, anti nuance and depth and exploration of ideas that it is somewhat refreshing to have the likes of Harris, Peterson, Rubin and the likes, who, at the very least, are willing to discuss and explore ideas and often admit that they are wrong. I think it's a great thing that they are selling out stadiums and real discussion is being listened to, because for so many years, all we had was the comedic route, the taking the piss out of everything route, that if I'm honest, I'm sick of, and which gives far too much credit to the likes of Jim Jefferies than they deserve. It's easy to take the piss, but put your cards on the table and tell us what you really feel, as such.

Harris, I do find quite one dimensional or biased if I am being honest and I think you summed him up very well. It is not that he is a bad guy or his intentions are negative, but he does seem to give leeway to people who love to spout on about atheism and the opposing faction too.

All that said, banning books is sinister. It is a type of character assassination. I am sure he will sell more books as a result, and I don´t think it's going to shut him down necessarily, but I think it's also good that people get a bit outraged over book banning..push back on them as such. Cambridge released a statement as to why they took back his fellowship also, and their terms didn't seem overly harsh..I think they're just looking to avoid any controversy. That said, it, again, appears like an attack on free speech, shutting down an academic etc etc.

[Ollkiller]

Agree with Chris. People of authority like Harris and Peterson have a duty to call out their followers who act in a mob mentality way.

Regarding that article in lifesitenews and that t shirt. They're both ridiculous and idiotic.

[Eoin McLove]

Very peculiar oversight (?) there from Peterson, particularly after the drama around him posing alongside that alt right frog flag.  Disappointing.