General Election Thread

[Pain Medicine]

words schmwords and all that, but Marie Sherlock said tonight that Labour won't be number fillers for FFG:
https://x.com/RTEUpfront/status/1863716688056684767

if Labour do refuse on some kind of "moral" ground, Soc Dems will look awful shitehawks if they accept.

could a "left alliance" try to strong arm FG out of the equation? giving something like FF-SF-SD-Labour?

Surely with 86 seats there won't be any serious negotiations with labour or anybody else anyway, they just need a few independents onboard, some of who they already have a working relationship with. If they had come out with 70 seats it might have been different.

[astfgyl]

I think this has possibly been the worst election I've witnessed in my lifetime....2007 is close though 

Turnout of 59.7%, marking the lowest since 1923...at least we've gone from FF alone getting about 41% back in 2002 and within 20 years FF/FG are now struggling to get that COMBINED. They are attached to the hip now unless something drastic happens but this has given the opposition a chance to build since 2016 and have utterly failed to do so. I mean what did SF really promote in terms of policies that people could get behind and get excited about? Tinkering around the edges in terms of budgetary measures and that they would build 50 BILLION more housing units? We didn't have a viable opposition for the last number of years, very very poor and all the left leaning parties, too fragmented and way too many of them splitting the votes because of ego/narcissism/stupidity. Same can go for "others".

Apathy, a plague on all your houses and the devil you know seems to be the theme of this election. I look forward to the absolute disaster of the next government 🙂 FF/FG first stop will be enticing Labour in, then SocDems or if that all fails, go with some dopey Indos like the Healy Raes.

All of that. An unbelievable missed opportunity for SF, who really need to have a good look at themselves after not even being able to take advantage of 2 and a half years of covid shit or anything. They won't though because they're already acting like the result is some sort of victory but it's ridiculous that they had no strategist in the party that could help them think of a way to capitalise on the general unhappiness.

I called it wrong though in thinking independents would have a better showing due to unhappiness with parties but it just didn't go that way at all. We really are a crazy country who like to complain but won't cast a ballot. I think not casting one has the same effect as actually casting one in a way, because you're leaving the choice to the party faithfuls who certainly will

[TheRuts]

The head of the electoral body, An Coimisún Toghcháin, has acknowledged that the electoral register is "not as accurate as it should be" and that there could be as many as 500,000 people who should not be on it.

While they claim that there's no evidence of voter fraud so far, SF are experts at it in the North.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well SF underperformed on many predictions, so if they did attempt fraud then they bollocksed it up rightly

[The Butcher]

words schmwords and all that, but Marie Sherlock said tonight that Labour won't be number fillers for FFG:
https://x.com/RTEUpfront/status/1863716688056684767

if Labour do refuse on some kind of "moral" ground, Soc Dems will look awful shitehawks if they accept.

could a "left alliance" try to strong arm FG out of the equation? giving something like FF-SF-SD-Labour?

Surely with 86 seats there won't be any serious negotiations with labour or anybody else anyway, they just need a few independents onboard, some of who they already have a working relationship with. If they had come out with 70 seats it might have been different.

But the classic mudguard of the two parties would be missing. Labour took the big hit from going in with FG in 2011 and Greens took the hit this time. You could say confidence and supply agreement from 2016 between FF/FG hurt both at the 2020 election so if they just had a few indos with them this time around, focus would be on them again. I think they will seriously discuss formation with Labour/SocDems before going elsewhere.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Surely with 86 seats there won't be any serious negotiations with labour or anybody else anyway, they just need a few independents onboard, some of who they already have a working relationship with. If they had come out with 70 seats it might have been different.

I'd say if they could get Labour to essentially replace the Greens as potential fallout guy (not for the first time either), then they'd take that option [edit: was typing exactly the same thing as The Butcher above!]. But you're right they don't need them. Another eventuality is that FF decide they want, long-term, to re-establish a distinction between themselves and FG and see shacking up with SF as a means of doing so. FFG + Indo seat fillers does still seem most likely though, yeah.

[open face surgery]

I don't think there's room for 2 nationalist parties, even though the days of FF being that are long gone, so they will avoid a coalition with SF. FF are more than happy with their current mongrel situation.

[astfgyl]

Just in general, and without even going into great detail on what was wanted or why:

Is there anyone here on the board who wanted the government we're about to get?

Asking because every single person I've met who wasn't actually running for election is throwing their eyes up at getting more of the same, and yet the vote speaks for itself. Really odd

[Grim Reality]

Well I voted FG and the two girls didn't get in so my transfer helped elect a FF who I'd never usually back. But these are strange times so I felt I should act strategically.

Astfygl, in fairness to you, you are about the most transparent on this board on this issue and have said who you'd vote for, and why. Everyone else is calling it a shitshow, the state of the country, we need "change" etc etc. Who the fuck did ye vote for? What is this nebulous change ye want?

I posted once on this previously and I think explained my thinking for the way I vote.

The centre is your only man.
With such a wide array of interests, perspectives, motives, beliefs etc in society I don't believe any form of extremism will have an overall benefit on society. With the Centre, nobody gets totally shafted and nobody gets complete victory. You can be a layabout cunt and the state will mind you. You can be a power hungry entrepreneur and you can succeed. You can be religious or pretend religious and have your kids do communion rituals while the fucking angelus is still played before the news. You can be as gay as anyone in the world or declare yourself the other gender if you like. The Centre tries to accommodate all.

Who were the alternatives? You asked this yourself Astfygl and admitted there were very little. So who did ye all vote for or what imaginary politicians would you have liked to vote for? What qualities and policies would they have?

Sinn Fein are still in with the IRA. I'm only in my 40s but remember enough to find it incredulous that ordinary citizens would turn a blind eye to the history and vote for them. The main reason I won't back them though is their half cooked socialist stuff. I wouldn't trust them to govern. They have no experience except in undermining the state. Did ye vote for them cos they promised ye a free gaff? I don't think I believe in a right to housing by the way.

Labour. Too socialist for me. I believe socialism is inherently unnatural to man. Metal heads should find this obvious!

Soc Dems. Will be gone in a few years. Bring back the PDs.

Independents. The odd one is ok but there's too many now. What power do they have? You need a party to navigate Leinster house and Brussels.

All that's left then is fringe lunatics like PBP and the National Party. Who on here voted for the likes of them?

A lot on here are going on about the country being in a terrible state. There are issues such as housing crisis, immigration, cost of living. These are global issues!!!! FF or FG did not create them. The same way the PDs did not cause the financial collapse of 2008 yet they were blamed for it and folded a year later. The world is a much bigger and more complex place than fucking Martin or Harris making a cunt of things in Ireland. Of course they could make better decisions within the space they have. But I'd prefer an established and experienced party making those decisions than the opposition, which is pitiful.

Ireland is a grand spot to live as illustrated by the thousands of legal and illegal immigrants trying to get in. Maybe some of ye might like to try out Slovakia, Romania or Poland to see how things are done better?

[astfgyl]

Great Post. I do like a bit of socialism but only to the extent that the free stuff equally applies to the people who did a bit better than the lads who did nothing. We have every chance of making a great country out of this one with what we have but I can't agree with either the far left or far right on anything because they're all just too stupid.

So I actually agree with your post more than I feel I'd like to in many ways and I think despite all the complaining, many folks in the country feel the very same and voted accordingly.

Have heard Poland is really on the way up though

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You're right that those are global issues GR. In an increasingly neoliberal and decreasingly socialist world in which wealth inequality is as prevalent as it was a century ago, to be precise.

But have FFG been merely just as bad as the governments of other socioeconomically comparable nations?

Play around with this interactive map, have a look notably at the national wealth shares of the richest 1% and 0.1% as well as that of the poorest 50%:
https://ourworldindata.org/economic-inequality

You'll see Ireland has one of the highest levels of wealth inequality in Europe. Are any and all politics aiming to even that out a bit too "socialist"? Is that level of wealth accumulation inherently natural to man?  People in the middle who don't want things to change because they're doing "grand" are doing a far bigger favour to that 1% and 0.1% than to anyone else, including themselves. I'm doing "grand" but I know that with more equitable resource distribution and access I'd still be doing "grand", just along with a lot more people who currently aren't doing grand at all.

As to what should and shouldn't be obvious to metal heads, Norway and Sweden are two of the most historically socialist countries in Europe 

[astfgyl]

Socialism like free school books and public transport and medical care for all is fine for me and if someone happens to have done well enough to get a bigger house they should also certainly be entitled to the same, given it's their taxes and not those of the lads at the bottom that would actually pay for that. I don't agree with my tax money being spent on giving free shit to layabouts and if I had my way I'd have the gestapo come and drag many of them out of bed in the morning and set them to work in a chain gang on projects for the greater good so yeah I'm a real socialist myself. I'd have the ipas lads out of the hotels working sure if they're fleeing such persecution etc they should be only delighted with the security of working here for it instead of being bored in the hotels with nothing to do, or even worse being back in their own places in terror of death or starvation. I'd have lads down the dole queue taking lads out of it to work. Nothing crazy, just 9 to 5 stuff so they'd be net contributors rather than the drain on money and resources they currently are. And if any of them were suffering we'd have free mental health services, free nursing homes for those who needed them after working all their lives. For those who couldn't work due to disabilities or caring for someone full time we'd have publicly funded services for that too, but none of that would work without serious reform of the whole taxation system as well as not going down a silly road such as saying the fella doing fuck all should have the same as the fella who does do a bit. People would be free to get rich and other People would be free to work less but couldn't claim on top of it without doing the government work, but with all the publicly funded free stuff, there'd be a real possibility for people to do that instead of being constantly backed into a corner. I would take all utilities into public ownership to keep the prices down and prevent the astronomical profits of shareholders being the foot on the head of those on more meagre means, but by fuck would I not just give people a load of free shit so that people just like me who can be arsed don't feel like getting up and going to work every day is a constant kick in the face.

Am I a socialist or a capitalist, and which political parties best represent my world view in this country? I don't think there's any tbh.

So yeah there may be global issues yeah but there's issues in other parts of the town here and I'm responsible for what goes on in my house so that's no excuse for ineptitude here, that other places are stupid.

I'm politically homeless myself but I fully understand why we got what we got in the election and must stand by the result given the extreme lack of anything serious as an alternative, no matter what the shinners might be saying in the dole queue.

[astfgyl]

Also the above post is not to be taken without the humour intended in it, but we just have a lot of things upside down at the minute, and I'm really not going with that whole equity thing while being a great believer in equality.

Therefore there's no party that wants to do anything I agree with for the most part, hence my agreement with Grim Reality on the grim reality of the situation

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Your take is grim reality. Grim Reality's take, ironically, is grand reality. Mine is... improvable reality, I suppose.

[astfgyl]

I suggested about 20 ways to improve it in a single post. I don't think Sinn Fèin would be doing any of the things I want so the reality is that there will be no alternative for at least 5 years and that is due to the poor effort at proposing anything I want from any of the non government parties. That would be the first thing that could be improved would be the quality of opposition because they are really really shit. So I do agree with Grim that what we're after getting is still better than whatever else was on offer. I'm happy reality, grim reality and improvable reality all at once