Cradle of Filth up to Midian fucking rules.

[Danny]

There I fucking said it. And I stand by it. and fuck the controversial metal opinions thread too cus I feel this is worth its own thread and not controversial. And also; I am genuinely vaguely curious about peoples opinions on this band, both where they are at today and what they think of their work up to Midian. I'm not sure if I am alone in seeing such a distinct shift in their style from Thornography to today from what they did before but I just have a hard time getting into any of it. and I've tried!

For me I really feel Principle, Dusk, Cruelty, From The Cradle & Midian most especially are just fucking brilliant and essential black metal. and for me archetypes. I have vivid memories and nostalgia around the years 1999/2000, being 15/16 & honestly thinking they were the most extreme and evil band out there, and I swear thinking and feeling like I was the coolest cunt going hanging around Dublin City round the central bank and the old Temple Bar music center etc alternating between wearing a From the Cradle to Enslave tshirt and that Jesus Is A Cunt one that nearly got me killed on the way home on the bus one night!

I also have vivid nostalgia; remembering just going into Sound Cellar off Nassau street weekly almost ritually and just worshipping the glass case collection of death and black metal cds, but being most curious about Cradle and buying 1 a week feeling like a fucking dark lord. You have to remember this was back in the day of early MTV2 and Kerrang! TV channels being often other than the old PhantomFM radio station the only places to hear metal besides your own research like, and the vids for "Her Ghost In The Fog" and "From The Cradle to Enslave" were easily among the most extreme you could get on these poxy channels so yeah I've watched them countless times.

I really feel like Midian has aged extremely well and stands as one of the best black metal albums. I know they got very overblown on the theatrical symphonic and cheese elements for most peoples taste, and honestly this includes me so I get it! But I fucking stand by their early work man and suggest it highly to black metal fans, like if you dismissed it maybe retry it sometime. and finally I have to say, despite not being on Midian sadly, Nick Barker is a fucking beast on drums on those early Cradle albums!

Opinions! 

[Thorn]

I'm well in the Midian camp ,some of the riffs on there are just pure British steel, in fact so much of Cradle is based on the classic NWOBHM sound that I hold them totally separate from the  Black Metal horde. I'd have Midian in third behind Dusk and Cruelty so no controversy or hackles raised here at least!

[Eoin McLove]

I never listened to it. I thought From the Cradle to Enslave was muck and gave up on them. I was also really obsessed with all the Relapse stuff that was coming out at that time so my mind was elsewhere. Must check out Midian now with the benefit of a couple of decades behind it.

[Pagan Saviour]

From Cradle is indeed muck. Beggars belief that they still play it.

Midian is a stone cold classic, it's just a great metal record full of classic riffs, there's no arguing with the songwriting on that one.


I'm going to be more controversial I think everything up to Damnation is worth having. Damnation is a fascinating but flawed album, they really flexed their muscles on that album. There's several miss-steps along the way and the album is far far too long. But really is an album of ambition that deserves to be revisited every once in a while. The budget obviously allowed for things like using a real orchestra, some of the string sections are sublime.

[Deranged Bear!]

I'd go one album further and say up to Thornography is great, love I am the Thorn.

Amongst their later stuff are some decent tracks and Manticore still gets regular plays in my house.

Also one of the best gigs I've been to, was Cradle with God Seed and Rotting Christ in the Forum London 2012. All three fucking ripped!

[jpm4]

I agree but would cut off at Cruelty. I remember ordering the FTCTE video and wondering what the fuck this nonsense was. Midian I was very disappointed with at the time, it just felt like such a step down from the last 2 records, but in retrospect it's a very solid record with some great guitar parts.

Check out the Scars and Guitars podcast if you are very nostalgic for 90s COF, a lot of the ex band members are interviewed on it.

[hellfire]

Midian is awful and ended my obsession with that band. I love everything up to that and Cruelty is an amazing album even if it couldn't be passed off as black metal by any stretch.

[jobrok1]

Loved everything up to Cruelty, nyself. Midian marked a change to my ears, but still like it.
Enjoyed most of their stuff for a while after, to a degree.

Controversial opinion... I think Nymphetamine is a banging album.
And I usually tried to nab the special editions of their albums just for the bonus cover versions. I really get a kick out if most of those.

[Lunar blood]

Cthulhu Dawn is a banger in particular on Midian. Regularly play that to get the blood flowin 😅

[Grim Reality]

Yeah I'm with a few others here - Cruelty is the cut off. When From The Cradle.... came out there was an obvious shift to more accessible territory. The video was more important than the song, indeed the entire EP which was just filler. Dani started a column in metal hammer. The tongue in cheek stuff started to get out of hand. Gone was the gothic romance and in came Clive barker horror. Midian felt a confirmation of a failing vision to me at this time. I was only 18/19 but I was gone. Bought the follow up Bitter Suites.... but it was hopeless.

Still throw on the first few albums occasionally. Strong nostalgia.

[Paul keohane]

Midian was the last thing I ever physically bought by them,some cool tracks on it.But by that point I was listening to other stuff,COF really didnt interest me much anymore.

[Danny]

I never listened to it.

Weird!

Y'know man...I've actually read most of your 7000+ posts on this forum; not to mention plus whatever number it was back on MI too; (not in a weird way or by choice by any means- just by default by reading the forum like anyone- and I do be impressed with your knowledge of music, and I usually enjoy your musings in general, not to mention I honestly humbly respect you as an Irish metal musician being part of a savage Irish metal band I've praised enough elsewhere..and all;

BUT I gotta say, and respectfully- I'm only up for a bit of craic and a bit of healthy metal debate here on the very place for it right... that I find it (vaguely) SHOCKing, Frankly!;Sir, how much one; or indeed You; could know so much about music and metal, including perhaps a couple hundred obscure metal bands across all the genres I can recall you mentioning right; but yet you can manage to randomly pass over such classic and highly regarded classic shit! Like here; on the topic of Black metal you know the Norwegian scene inside out and lots of European bands too, you listen to BURZUM regularly and probably do weird Satanic gardening rituals vibing to some Mortuary Drape and a cheap red wine with a wax melt going that smells like a nappy or something, but like, somehow you have never once in over 20 years of being a metal fan, thought to check Midian out ever even out of curiousity?!! Thats just fuckin weird to me man! Especially considering even you were a fan of the bands previous albums too.

Like I would say quite comfortably, because it was fact well outside of me and not a matter of opinion or taste; that Cradle of Filth were easily as popular and revered as MAYHEM were in the late 90s/early 00s for black metal and were clearly representing Black metal strongly for England, in the same way that Primordial were for Ireland; or Rotting Christ for Greece. It seemed to me there was a truly dark vibe around them 99/00, likely its just my perception and my age then I dunno but like I was saying in my OP that has been sadly long lost on the band now that I am very nostalgic for; having a mid-life crisis of sorts as a 39 year old Irish metalhead as I am I guess. but Like what was mentioned there people had cut off points; being last albums they were into before they had to bow out. For me Midian was it. I've tried with Damnation (I love the theme being obsessed with Aleister Crowley to this day as I Am but still no), Nymphetamine, Thornography onward wanting to like them but just not. Honestly I think that vid for Babalon A.D. just fucked it for me, its just embarrasingly bad. At least the older vids they had, while ridiculous maybe, had that very METAL like IMMORTAL vibe that made it Trve! yknow..and then that hideous song The Death Of Love had me considering selling my Filth CDs in shame. It just got too commercial and Evanescencey and I just can't with shit like that.

Likewise curiosity;; in an other thread there a couple weeks back, I believe in response to the newest SADUS single, (which I agree with you honestly on one level because its a bit shit really in the way that its nothing new, and if they were a new band I would probably dismiss it, but they are not a new band they are going since 1986 and its actually not that fucking bad..)  you said you had never listened to classic SADUS ever. and I didn't even reply but I was just like to meself for a second; WTF. how is that possible when this dude knows so much fucking metal that I've discovered a fair few deadly obscure bands from his namedropping over the years? (Ride For Revenge is one that stands out- I recall you praising the innovativeness of The King Of Snakes the year it came out and I've been hooked on this band ever since. I am so fucking disturbed by spiritual tormentors you wouldn't believe it man.)

Like I dunno but for me when I first heard Metallica at 15 I I consumed everything and anything THRASH I could get my hands eyes and ears on and within a couple of years was already running out of 3rd rate obscure bands (Believer, Realm, ASPID anyone??) , to discover for the first time, nevermind easily 1st or 2nd rate I would say legendary blueprint for the genre type bands like SADUS. I mean fucking Chemical Exposure and Swallowed In Black? Forget about it. For me; these 2 albums are easily alongside Dark Angel- Darkness Descends, Infernal Majesty- None Shall Defy & Holy Terror- Mind Wars as like the pinnacle of absolutely brutal and true Thrash metal of the highest caliber at the peak of its power. And Steve DiGiorgio is a fucking murderer on bass.

Just a weird coincidence I guess, for anyone to miss any band or album. I guess it just comes down to the randomness of peoples different tastes moods and interests etc that is completely arbitrary & also very vaguely or barely interesting honestly anyways so back to Cradle of Filth- I am curious what age were you in the year 2000 and did you ever pick up the likes of Kerrang and Metal Hammer etc at the time? Cradle were all over these then decked out looking fucking evil and Satanic as fuck, to the degree its so over the top its stupid but I think its cool really and just funny anyone would be shocked by anyone wearing or looking like fucking anything like but what was brilliant to me about Cradle at the time was just the serious contrast to the Linkin Park Papa Roach Crazy Townz on the other page yknow and I just thought that was genius. but it wasn't just the over the top evil image they were selling- they actually had several strong albums out with some deadly black metal tunes that actually had proper fucking production that sounded massive unlike Darkthrone or BURZUM recorded using a fucking cauliflower. And They had hot girls with big tits and blood and shit on their album covers but it wasn't cheesy, it was fucking evil and sexy. They had a very true and Satanic vibe about them, at least to me at the time. It seemed any metalheads I knew were dividing between true old Heavy Thrashers etc...and younger heads worshipping Marilyn Manson or KoRn and Slipknot, but the vibe was at the time if you were into shit like MAYHEM, EMPEROR, or Cradle of Filth, AKERCOCKe and the Horny Goats of Mendes or whatnot, or if you knew about BATHORY... you were still a fucking absolute Satanic weirdo. Maybe even to many other metalheads as black metal was still at the time very much from what I remember feeling, dark weird and Hateful music for outsiders. But today it's like black metal is so well known to everyone and nothing is shocking anymore of course. Not that anyone should give a fuck, just an observation and curiosity really all this I guess.

But yeah It was the year 2000. Black metal nostalgia. I was very frequently wearing a long black leather jacket everywhere as I thought the film The Matrix was deadly and had bought one in a shop I dont remember the nameof but was groundfloor in St. Stephens Green Shopping Center the very next day after I seen it and was adament it was and I was pure deadly for a couple of years before I gave it to a homeless bastard on the Ha-penny bridge one night drunk. But yeah many friends or people I knew were obsessed with Chocolate Starfish And The Hot Dog Flavored Water or Dr. Dre Chronic 2001 or whatever (I had shit and un-trve friends I guess but hey- they were the ones with the weed drinks and drugs!) but I instead bought a copy of Midian and blasted Cthulu Dawn while reading Lovecraft.. while several cutouts of Cradle from magazines slowly joined my posters of Morrissey on the wall (fuck you I love him) and I know I'm getting weird now but then later having a cheeky wank to some slightly dodgy goth s&m porn on fucking dialup with the required patience of an Irish Priest, while working on serious efforts trying to get me hole and hit on girls that were way out of my league playing the alternative card because listen I am different babe and I hate all them bastards too. Like do they really think robbing cars and driving fast is cool? EMINEM? lol gay. I can't believe he actually hit you WTF i would never!  I dunno why I always wear the big coat ha I just think it looks cool I guess, have you ever seen the Matrix? It means I reject your stupid fucking reality and I substitute my own. but here Listen ; have you ever tried black lipstick?

Anyway whatever. Midian is a really good fucking black metal album and thats all. Theres something about the whole package of the purple Lovecraftian artwork and theme that really pulled me in. That and the flawless production and deadly Maidenesque riffery and downright just fucking weird shrieking vocals that cannot be denied. Check it out sometime and let us all in the world know man! At least someone please check out the delicious bass playing in Her Ghost In The Fog at 3.55 - 4.15 that has haunted me for over 2 decades and pushed me to finally pick up a bass guitar a few years back. If that isn't a tasty little lick there that doesn't make you wanna oil up some hot Satanist Goth Girls big tits; well then you can fuck off; & I don't know! Forgive me for waffling here; but it is Stephen's Day morning and I do enjoy having time off work and I do enjoy a cheeky Baileys and a nice joint with some BLACK METAL first thing in the morning!, so why not stir up a bit of Metal forum debate for the craic. If this is not the place for it; sure where is right?!

I would say sorry for wasting a minute of your time reading all that there if you or anyone has; but Hey; I am talking to someone with over 7000 forum posts so...

Slainte! 

[Maggot Colony]

Dusk is the only worthwhile Cradle of Filth release.

[Eoin McLove]

I'm not reading all of that but I'll answer the bit I read. I loved Dusk when it came out. I liked Cruelty but to a lesser degree. In retrospect and having figured out the vocabulary of my emotions back then, I think it was down to the production being inferior to my ear. Some of the obscurity as I saw it was lost along the way. Still a good album but not as good.

I got into metal at a really young age back in around 1990. GNR, swiftly followed by Metallica, Megadeth, ST, Anthrax and Slayer. My knowledge of metal was incredibly limited and my access to new bands was even more so back then. The Metal Show began in 1992 and I listened to it religiously but bear in mind I was still only 10 at that point so I had no money. I would get a few tapes for my birthday and Christmas and record the odd thing here and there as well. Grunge came along around then so that was on my radar and bits of nu metal a couple of years after that. Odds and sods like Therapy?,NIN,Ministry, then (edit-Deicide and Obituary got me into death metal in around 93/94), Paradise Lost, Cannibal Corpse, Brutal Truth, Samael and later COF, Emperor, Hecate Enthroned. The Geasa demo. Plus loads of punk and bits of hardcore. It was a big mashup of this, that and the other that caught my attention but no deep dives into scenes back in the 90s. I just didn't have much of a clue, just followed what interested me.

By the early 00s when I went on the internet I was around 19 and really hungry for more extreme stuff. I had been getting into the Relapse stuff over the past couple of years plus Neurosis, Breach, Today is the Day, Pig Destroyer etc. Then doom caught me. Khanate, Unearthly Trance and Rev Biz in particular. That opened black metal up to me too and off I went with a few hints on forums, lots of cluelessness and total obsession.

So while I picked up on many classics along the way there are still many many, many areas that just don't interest me all that much. I find myself drawn more to 80s and 90s classics and obscurities in recent years but sure, there's no end to them in any direction so what can I do. I just keep following what intrigues me at any given paycheck and follow my own nose. It results in heavy focus in certain areas and very little in others.

As a musician that can be a strength as you have a more eclectic pool of influences to draw from. Or maybe I'm giving myself too much credit there 

As for Midian, my COF obsession had cooled off a couple of years before it came out so it passed me by.

[jpm4]

Midian is a strange one - musically a lot of it is very good, but it's completely devoid of the atmosphere that made Dusk and Cruelty so memorable. Summed up by the terrible album artwork - from atmospheric Hammer Horror vampire chic to Shockly Clive Barker shit.