Books

[astfgyl]

I remember Hard Times only too well from my junior cert days. The experience of taking into the book in that fashion put me off Dickens ever since

[Eoin McLove]

Defo give Great Expectations a shot.  Fire it on YouTube and you'll get totally absorbed.  It's great.

[John Kimble]

Obviously, as someone in my late thirties,  can't comment on how the curriculum is run these days, but the leaving cert (or perhaps the Irish education system in general) is very much guilty of sapping the enjoyment out of reading many classic novels back in the day. Rather than absorb a book as a whole, individual chapters were dissected piece by piece for abstract themes and concepts, depriving the reader of any enjoyment and turning the whole experience into a slog. I hope this has been somewhat rectified as I can't imagine how off-putting such an approach would be for today's students, given their limited attention spans.

[Pedrito]

Its such a tricky thing teaching these books in school. Essentially, we should all be reading them in Summer before coming back to school, and then dissecting them throughout the year. The way it was done when I was a lad, combined with my complete apathy towrads education in general at the time, meant that so much great stuff was just swept aside or under theh carpet. That said, I fell in love with JD Salinger, John Steinbeck, the war poets and many of the Irish poets like Yeats and Clarke as a result. I loved reading the Aeneid and the Odyssey, possibly because the teacher was so into it also. It could have been done so much better though, and or, I could have been a far more diligent student. It just couldn´t compete with Slayer, shifting, smoking, wanking, football, guitar, constant boners and about a thousand other things though. Hard Times indeed..

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Maybe the choice of books too. I remember digging Hamlet but hating Emma, for example. Or in Irish, An Béal Bocht was great fun, even in class, whereas Peig is horrific on every level (never read it all though, since it was a year gone when I did my Leaving).

The idea of teaching critical or reflective reading, or whatever, is fundamentally important. The classics were written layered, and even if what you get out of something is your own invention, that practice in analogical thinking is central to higher social cognition. I think on the whole, back in our day anyway, they could have made more of an effort to choose books of a wider and more entertaining appeal.

[Pedrito]

yep completely agree. I think there´s also a lack of connection between the subjects too. If I study Shakespeare for example, then I should have been learning about that timeframe in history class and if it is not immediately obvious to me, as a teenager, then it would be really good if it was pointed out to me. I remember reading Othello in Junior Cert thinking, what the fuck is a Moor, and the whole lack of context around that whole idea meant so much meaning was lost..as if it wasn´t already impossible to read in the first place.

There is a lack of cross-curricular thinking, though at times it can happen. It would make for such a far more effective learning experience if there was far more connection going on across the curriculum. You read Steinbeck and in history class you are doing The Great Depression and studying that from an economic perspective in your business studies class or whatever.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

yep completely agree. I think there´s also a lack of connection between the subjects too. If I study Shakespeare for example, then I should have been learning about that timeframe in history class and if it is not immediately obvious to me, as a teenager, then it would be really good if it was pointed out to me. I remember reading Othello in Junior Cert thinking, what the fuck is a Moor, and the whole lack of context around that whole idea meant so much meaning was lost..as if it wasn´t already impossible to read in the first place.

Good point. Not so long ago, I read Asimov's critique of Hamlet and it began with a historical contextualization, both that of the putative real world links for the story itself and, of course, Shakespeare's Britain in relation to Scandinavia. It blew the whole thing wide open for me again, finally having what were intentionally obvious nods and winks to the contemporary audience pointed out to me.

[Eoin McLove]

Valid points about tying different subjects together but I think there is a basic vocabulary issue that will always be a hindrance to twelve to fifteen year olds.  I just know,  from listening to this,  that I'd have had to look up so many new words that it would be an almost insurmountable task that would suck the energy out of the story,  as was the case in my recollection.  But that's all irrelevant now (to us old farts at least). The point I was making was that reading it now,  as an adult who has read a thousand books since,  expanded my vocabulary and understanding of the world so much,  that you can take it for what it is.  An excellent and entertaining  piece of literature. 

The mind of a twelve year old,  or a fifteen year old for that matter,  is a blunt enough instrument that hasn't the capacity to process much nuance. It's only thinking back on it now that I can really appreciate how small my world and my understanding of it really was.

[Pedrito]

Oh no doubt. I think I'll be following you down the Dickens road quite soon. I'm trying to read as many classics as possible and I have yet to be dissapointed so really looking forward to that.

[Eoin McLove]

If you want to avoid disappointment maybe give Don Quixote a wide berth.  Shocking stuff...

[Pedrito]

Currently reading it in Spanish and really enjoying it 

[Eoin McLove]

Fair play. It's one that just didn't click with me at all.

[Pedrito]

I'm.only quarter way in, could easily turn to shite I live literally down the street from where Cervantes lived, the whole town is dedicated to him, so I had to read it. I think so many factors would make it far more 'readable' for me..the language, the social context, how his character and that of Sancho reflect those of ppl I know..kinda stereotypical stuff, but all relevant.

A book, I read in English that I really didn't like was '100 years of Solitude'. Went back and read it in Spanish years later, and it almost changed the way I look at the world. Not saying it's a language thing necessarily, but I find the more immersed I am in something, the greater the impact.

This leads back to, actually something you talkdd about on the old forum, mystique, presentation etc etc, when it comes to music, and I was probably in one of my 'fuck everyone' moods when I said it didn't mean anything. It does, it actually means a whole lot, as important, if not more important, than the music. It cannot replace the music, would have been my argument. How to create it in a modern age is another question.

[Trev]

I started Don Quixote in English years ago, gave up about 100 pages in. It's something I wouldn't mind giving another go in Spanish but I've barely used any since the leaving cert, might need a few catch up lessons first!

[Pedrito]

For some reason I am very behind on Irish literature and plays such as Joyce or Synge. I love Oscar Wilde, Yeats, Austin Clarke and of course studied plenty of stuff in school. Any recommendations..i.e. things that really have to be read, essentials.