Lords of Chaos movie

[Juggz]

I can't help but feel some people are taking it far too seriously. To play devil's advocate - would anyone expect a dramatisation of Black Sabbath or Venom's formative years to be some deep, chin-stroking exploration of how some young geniuses revolutionised music, took it to the extremes of the time and continue to influence today, or would it be a cringeworthy tale of some naive young dopes who stumble upon something new and exciting and somehow make a success of it and still influence music today?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I can't help but feel some people are taking it far too seriously. To play devil's advocate - would anyone expect a dramatisation of Black Sabbath or Venom's formative years to be some deep, chin-stroking exploration of how some young geniuses revolutionised music, took it to the extremes of the time and continue to influence today, or would it be a cringeworthy tale of some naive young dopes who stumble upon something new and exciting and somehow make a success of it and still influence music today?

The subject matter doesn't determine whether a film will be good or bad, if that's what you're trying to get at. Also, Sabbath and Venom were just making music for fun, for distraction, according to themselves. A better question is maybe, how come 'What's Love Got To Do With It?' isn't a cringeworthy tale of some naïve young dope who got herself in with a bad crew but danced funny and had kooky style so let's just have a laugh at that in our film. Ah yes, it's because there actually was stuff happening in Tina Turner's story that is worthy of pause and reflection and serious treatment. Sabbath and Venom were in it for the rock 'n roll only, there's not much chin-stroking to be done in their stories, and we know this from the interviews with them. The lads took themselves seriously, took the themes of their music incredibly seriously, and they did some seriously fucked up stuff. The tone of the movie is clearly off-target for dealing with that properly.

[Pentagrimes]

I can't help but feel some people are taking it far too seriously.

This could actually pass as a press blurb for the poster, and the genre itself.

[Juggz]

I can't help but feel some people are taking it far too seriously. To play devil's advocate - would anyone expect a dramatisation of Black Sabbath or Venom's formative years to be some deep, chin-stroking exploration of how some young geniuses revolutionised music, took it to the extremes of the time and continue to influence today, or would it be a cringeworthy tale of some naive young dopes who stumble upon something new and exciting and somehow make a success of it and still influence music today?

The subject matter doesn't determine whether a film will be good or bad, if that's what you're trying to get at. Also, Sabbath and Venom were just making music for fun, for distraction, according to themselves. A better question is maybe, how come 'What's Love Got To Do With It?' isn't a cringeworthy tale of some naïve young dope who got herself in with a bad crew but danced funny and had kooky style so let's just have a laugh at that in our film. Ah yes, it's because there actually was stuff happening in Tina Turner's story that is worthy of pause and reflection and serious treatment. Sabbath and Venom were in it for the rock 'n roll only, there's not much chin-stroking to be done in their stories, and we know this from the interviews with them. The lads took themselves seriously, took the themes of their music incredibly seriously, and they did some seriously fucked up stuff. The tone of the movie is clearly off-target for dealing with that properly.

No, not really what I'm getting at. There has been nothing to suggest that the music is a major part of this movie. Is it here to give black metal a fair hearing? No, I'd say that's highly unlikely. It looks like it's a drama about some kids, some of who go on to do very bad things. As such, it should be expected that many of the same liberties are taken about subject matters in other films we're not so precious about and let slide. It's a big story squashed into 90-odd minutes for the purposes of entertainment. Enjoy/dislike the film for what it is, not what the overbearing expectations of it seem to be.

[Juggz]

I can't help but feel some people are taking it far too seriously.

This could actually pass as a press blurb for the poster, and the genre itself.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I couldn't care less whether they stick to what "actually" happened or not. But I guess I do care that there was material to inspire a great film there, but this by all appearances is a shit film. I suppose it all boils down to what is being taken seriously.

[Juggz]

How seriously they took themselves has no bearing on how seriously everyone else should take them. I agree, there's a great story in there but there is also a lot which is ridiculous to all but devotees.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

How seriously they took themselves has no bearing on how seriously everyone else should take them.

No, but the connection between how seriously they took themselves and the serious (as in, grave) things they did would have been worthy of a great film. Ah sure, we'll see. Maybe it'll turn out to be incredible and I'll have stabbed egg all over my face.

[Juggz]

Excruciating interviewer, three minutes before the lad gets a word in 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxL1BLezYk0

[Grim Reality]

I can't help but feel some people are taking it far too seriously.

This could actually pass as a press blurb for the poster, and the genre itself.

I don't know why you continuously feel the need to take digs at black metal as a genre. It's an incredibly broad church and encompasses everything from juvenile fantasy 'evil' to spiritualism and philosophy and a lot more in between. Thematically it's the home of much of the most interesting ideas in metal as a whole where other genres are largely wedded to escapism.

And no I'm not taking it too seriously myself. Much of the BM I like in the same way as I like Bon Jovi. 

[Pentagrimes]

Because quite simply even though I find a lot of it, moreso than any other metal subgenre, utterly pretentious in a way that grinds my fucking gears.  I find a lot of it just plain silly. I was just as in awe of all these people when I was 15 or 16 and a naive impressionable idiot but I'm 42 now and at this point in my life I can't take grown men genuinely talking about being "evil" to be anything other than theatre. I can pinpoint the exact moment I started to find it utterly ridiculous for you if you like, and that moment was reading "The Sinister Flame" zine.

I could apply the same logic to Power Electronics or hardcore punk if you like? Hell I could apply it to plenty of the newer wave of Death Metal at this point too. All equally up their own arse.

Also c'mon, it's total escapism.

Actually yknow what? Much as I like a lot of metal overall, I really have started to find a lot of the non-musical aspects of it utterly grating over the last year or two generally. So if you want to pick at it,I find it all a bit daft, not just black metal.

And I'm also fairly sure it's War Metal I've been taking the most explicit digs at on here anyway. Which I regard as a seperate thing.

[astfgyl]

I have a lot of the same problems as pentagrimes with the whole image of metal. So I don't see how a film could be reverent to what is essentially a few troubled young lads who were handy with a guitar. Their problems went a lot deeper than music and how anybody over the age of around 15 could take it seriously is beyond me. The real thing to do would have been to make a full on comedy out of it and really provoke all involved as much as they were at pains to provoke anyone and anything back in the day.

I actually like a bit of BM as well but i had to come to terms with how preposterous metal in general is a few years ago. To me, it is like say an actor playing a character on stage. Everybody accepts that they are not going to be the same person off stage and that is fine.

I will probably watch the movie at some point but i wouldn't go out of my way for it

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Have you forgotten the part about the actual murders and arson? That didn't happen on stage. That is why there was an angle for a genuinely dark exploration of the human psyche in this story, which could absolutely have also embraced the juvenile aspect of it all.

[Eoin McLove]

Could all the wimps crying about metal being ludicrous and embarrassing please leave the hall. It's fucking pathetic.

Anyone who claims to like black metal but finds the imagery embarrassing should be made to have a sword fight with Rob Darken. Hung,  drawn and drowned in a sauna.

[astfgyl]

I don't think that the imagery is embarrassing in itself, just that people who take it in any way seriously should be embarrassed.