LOTR - The Rings of Power [SPOILERS]

[Ollkiller]

Really good episode. They're kinda creating their own mythology in the making of the rings. Nothing wrong with that as there's little to base it off. This season is way better than S1.

Aye this season is night and day to season 1. Think there's a major battle coming as well.

[Born of Fire]

I've about 20 minutes left on the first episode of season 2 and so far it's boring the arse off me. Sounds like it's worth sticking with though going by the last handful of posts

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

With how well the season is going so far, I can only imagine the scene this plays over is going to be quality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOfhZJax3NI

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I wonder how deep into the "metaphysics" of Tolkien they're thinking of getting? Tom Bombadil's first line in the show was, "I see you found the goat!" Funny joke, rolling in with modern slang, hoho, Tom is the GOAT. But the slang reference could even run much deeper: Tom, as the 'Eldest' (in the books and as he reminds us several times in the episode), may well be the greatest of all time but that doesn't mean he's the greatest full-stop: other beings had existence before time; the Ainur/Valar/Maiar (of which the Stranger is presumably one, along with Sauron, Saruman, etc.) originated in the Timeless Halls, the dwelling place of Eru. "Time" doesn't start until, fittingly, the Music begins. It'll be interesting to see if they hint at any of this creation stuff in any way. Not sure to what extent they can though, with the ever present question of what they actually do and don't have the rights to.

[Emphyrio]

I wonder how deep into the "metaphysics" of Tolkien they're thinking of getting? Tom Bombadil's first line in the show was, "I see you found the goat!" Funny joke, rolling in with modern slang, hoho, Tom is the GOAT. But the slang reference could even run much deeper: Tom, as the 'Eldest' (in the books and as he reminds us several times in the episode), may well be the greatest of all time but that doesn't mean he's the greatest full-stop: other beings had existence before time; the Ainur/Valar/Maiar (of which the Stranger is presumably one, along with Sauron, Saruman, etc.) originated in the Timeless Halls, the dwelling place of Eru. "Time" doesn't start until, fittingly, the Music begins. It'll be interesting to see if they hint at any of this creation stuff in any way. Not sure to what extent they can though, with the ever present question of what they actually do and don't have the rights to.

Interesting. While they don't have the rights to the First Age and before, because Tom Bombadil doesn't feature in The Silmarillion, they kinda have free rein to create a story for him. He's a character that isn't delved into too deeply in the books, from what I've read but I haven't read The History of Middle Earth books. I've always thought he was one of the Valar but this thing about being the oldest, could he actually be Eru Illuvatar?

The actor and writing for him, at this early stage, is spot on. Whimsical and profound in equal measure. Exactly the way I imagined him. 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I've come to think of him as kind of an epiphenomenon of the Music of the Ainur, maybe of the first theme specifically. Same, I think of the nameless things (Watcher in the Water, etc.) as similar epiphenomena maybe specifically of Melkor's discordances with the first theme. I can't remember exactly where, but I seem to remember hearing that Tolkien had said no (maybe in a letter?) to Tom being Eru Illuvatar... without ever going the step further to clarify exactly who/what he was.

But yeah, I was happy with the in-show portrayal too, having been really apprehensive since first hearing he was going to appear. Unimportant niggle just that maybe he seems slightly too concerned in the matters of Middle Earth compared to what we learn of him in the LotR (such as Gandalf saying the ring couldn't be given to him since he'd likely forget it or even throw it away in absent-mindedness).

[Emphyrio]

That's an interesting theory alright. That Tolkien didn't go into too much detail about who he actually is could go one of two ways and I'm not sure which I'd prefer, to keep his origin a mystery or to go bold and commit to him being a Valar or some such. Him being Eru would probably be a stretch and fits with your second point. 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I think he intentionally left a lot of things up to interpretation... and even alternate tellings! In some of his letters he reminds people that the older tales are supposed to be "purely mythological", meaning that they're mythological in-universe as well, not to be taken as part of the "history" of Middle Earth. And even the stuff that is "history" is often told from the coloured perspective of a given character (which is how, for example, we get at least two in-universe versions of the story of how Bilbo found the ring). So I like the music of ainur theory for Tom and the nameless things, but it's just that; a theory. And I'd say Tolkien specifically knocking the "Tom as Eru" theory down is more down to his ultimate personal association of Eru with 'God Almighty' of Christianity. Or not! 

[Emphyrio]

I might avoid those letters and keep the mystery!

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

This may only interest you Emphyrio, but anyone else feel free: just discovered these highly expert yet zero-cynicism post-episode analyses which have been running since S1. They're long but they seem to all be split into three distinct sections: thematic analysis (like global literary studies type stuff, how friendship, healing, mortality, etc., is explored), adaptation analysis (production analysis, personally found this least interesting in the one ep I've watched so far), and then a lore analysis, which in this first ep anyway was really great. That section starts at 58:20:
https://youtu.be/wEuYPD_VttE?si=SacVfQy8_7Us6hKN

[Emphyrio]

Cool, I'll definitely give them a whirl.

[Emphyrio]

This may only interest you Emphyrio, but anyone else feel free: just discovered these highly expert yet zero-cynicism post-episode analyses which have been running since S1. They're long but they seem to all be split into three distinct sections: thematic analysis (like global literary studies type stuff, how friendship, healing, mortality, etc., is explored), adaptation analysis (production analysis, personally found this least interesting in the one ep I've watched so far), and then a lore analysis, which in this first ep anyway was really great. That section starts at 58:20:
https://youtu.be/wEuYPD_VttE?si=SacVfQy8_7Us6hKN

This chap is great. I'm not into the other one's bits but this fella really knows his stuff. He's very diplomatic in his "making peace" with what he considers mistakes on the part of the writers. The S2 uploads aren't broken up into segments, unfortunately, but that's a minor gripe.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Same as you, I generally skip through her bits or leave them play while I make tea haha, but am getting so much out of his takes, those I disagree with as much as those where I agree. I'm still only slowly chipping away at it, the S1 and S2 ones in parallel, bit by bit. It's hours and hours of content too, so it'll last me well beyond the season finale. Woop!

Found the battle scene in ep 7 a little bit disappointing after all the build up, but I'll see what I think of it on a rewatch when I go through the whole season this weekend or next. Looking forward to doing that.

[Emphyrio]

I like the way he can tie in or justify what might seem outside reasonable bounds of the lore. He offers very interesting takes.

The battle, while good, was no Helm's Deep. Watching the season week to week kinda killed the momentum, so I'll do a rewatch too.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Haha, no it was no Helm's Deep, but on first watch it wasn't as good as the battles from S1 either.

I heard yer man's done similar analyses on The Hobbit movies which I must check out when I'm done with the RoP ones. If he can get me thinking differently about some of the worst choices made there, then I'll be really impressed