Pet Peeves

[Eoin McLove]

Poor little baba.

I was listening to the radio earlier and they were asking if learning English should be mandatory in school.  This topic seems to pop up at regular intervals with a different subject being caught in the cross hairs.  Should Irish be mandatory; should Geography be mandatory; should Maths be mandatory; should a foreign language be mandatory...

I mean, at what point do you have to ask should school itself be mandatory! If you undermine the importance of every subject,  then you're basically questioning the point of school. I think that they could improve the system by introducing/ reintroducing channels for kids who are more manually inclined- tech school essentially, but the system as it is still has it's uses.

I think though, beyond that,  school must have another function than simply being a filter into the work force.  Having a basic knowledge of French,  Irish,  Maths etc can be useful even if you never actually use them in a practical,  money making sense.  You never know how any such knowledge,  however passing it may be, may be helpful in future life,  or just be useful in terms of being able to hold an adult conversation. 

I'm sure there's an entire thread of discussion on this topic.

[Doctor Crippen]

It was on the news yesterday people are campaigning to get home work removed from primary school, as it causes stress for the child and parents. WTF is happening to Ireland

[Eoin McLove]

Mass wimpification.

In my day....

[Paul keohane]

It was on the news yesterday people are campaigning to get home work removed from primary school, as it causes stress for the child and parents. WTF is happening to Ireland

Its the amount of homework is the issue,

[DeletedUsermNqGIiIuGy]

Stop having kids.. problem solved

[Ollkiller]

Taking homework away from primary schools kids is a good idea. Works really well in Finland. You need it in secondary school but not so much in primary. Primary school kids should do other things after school, play outside, learn an instrument etc. Its  a really good idea.

[Yung Led Zeppelin]

Taking homework away from primary schools kids is a good idea. Works really well in Finland. You need it in secondary school but not so much in primary. Primary school kids should do other things after school, play outside, learn an instrument etc. Its  a really good idea.

You forgot the best one, putting them to work out on the bog for profit

[Emphyrio]

Taking homework away from primary schools kids is a good idea. Works really well in Finland. You need it in secondary school but not so much in primary. Primary school kids should do other things after school, play outside, learn an instrument etc. Its  a really good idea.

I've heard this too but I can't get my head around it, if I'm honest. I'm a teacher and quite frankly kids need to read at home every day. They need to do spellings and tables every day. Whatever about some homework possibly not being as important, I can't see how children don't benefit from re-enforcement of maths concepts etc. The fact of the matter is, they may as well get used to homework as I can't imagine how miserable it'd be to go from a blissful scenario of no homework in primary school to the misery of a longer school day, homework, more dickheads etc in secondary.

Also, we look to the Scandanavian model in many areas - education, welfare, crime. Surely there's too many variables for us to just look at them and say, "you know what, we should give that a go" and it to be a solution to everything.

[Doctor Crippen]

Taking homework away from primary schools kids is a good idea. Works really well in Finland. You need it in secondary school but not so much in primary. Primary school kids should do other things after school, play outside, learn an instrument etc. Its  a really good idea.

It may work in Finland I don't know but I hear that thrown around a lot, such as kids deciding what classes they go to.
The problem would be the transition to secondary school and then to third level where they would be expected to write lengthy essays and read to gather their information.

On the news part of the argument was the pressure it put on parents to have to come home from work and sit down with the children helping them with the work.

[Pedrito]

I'm sorry but if you choose to have kids then you're responsible for them and that includes helping them to read, write, add, subtract etc. You'd swear people were out in the salt mines all day. That's what parents are meant to do. As for Finland, different country, very different wayd of going on. It seems to be the ace card always dealt and yet I'd say you'd be lucky to meet any Irish person who has ever been to Finland. We always do that faraway fields stuff for some reason.

[Paul keohane]

Whats happened in Ireland is lots of parents  are in a rat race,both working full time because rent/mortages,in lots of cases there is a long daily commute etc etc.Mountains of homework creates arguments in lots of households.
I just think the volume of homework needs to be reduced,no way should it be scrapped.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I think that they could improve the system by introducing/ reintroducing channels for kids who are more manually inclined- tech school essentially

Historically, the idea that you can select those who are more "manually inclined" and direct them into what is usually called vocational education has merely meant selecting those who, most often (statistically speaking) because of class background, don't appear to be intellectually inclined. The result is usually further entrenching class divisions. Or, in a nutshell, the result is the absolute state of the US electorate, where vocational education was pushed more than in any other western nation starting in the 30s-50s.

[Ducky]

There should be a limit on homework. Maybe focus on the core subjects, stuff that you need to work on and apply self direction to.

I know in secondary school I didn't do honours maths because the teacher was infamous for burying the class with homework and she was a right cunt if it wasn't done. Fuck that. The end result of her being a shit was people would either do what I did, eventually drop back down to pass or end up resenting maths entirely. Aren't all those things the opposite of what an educator should be fostering in kids?

I had three favourite teachers in secondary school - my physics teacher gave small amounts of homework but was smart about it. Always something practical that made sense to know, you always got to see the theory in practice. Biology teacher gave no homework at all. The whole class did honours biology in the Leaving and did well. English teacher gave homework about once a month. I'm 20 years out of school now, have a degree in science, my main creative outlet is writing and I'm really good with English in general... I don't think these things are a coincidence.

[Eoin McLove]

I think that they could improve the system by introducing/ reintroducing channels for kids who are more manually inclined- tech school essentially

Historically, the idea that you can select those who are more "manually inclined" and direct them into what is usually called vocational education has merely meant selecting those who, most often (statistically speaking) because of class background, don't appear to be intellectually inclined. The result is usually further entrenching class divisions. Or, in a nutshell, the result is the absolute state of the US electorate, where vocational education was pushed more than in any other western nation starting in the 30s-50s.

I think it's important for every citizen to be given a good basic education, so they come out of school able to read, write and with a broad understanding of the world which they will then build on as they grow up. A bit of Irish,  the basics in maths,  a cúpla focail in French or German or whatever other languages are being thought these days,  etc. I think that should be sacrosanct. 

But what about those who "don't appear to be intellectually inclined"? By 5th year you'll have a reasonable understanding of who will or won't do well in the LC structure,  and who will go on to do something in college.  It makes sense to me to try to steer those who struggle in school or simply hate it into another avenue that will benefit them.  It's not as if plumbers, electricians or any other skilled manual labourers here are looked down upon so maybe we don't need to compare ourselves with the US, which always tends to be a bit of a basket case anyway.  We can use them as an example of how not to operate the same way we always look to Scandinavia as torch bearers in all such matters.

I'm not dismissing the idea of school,  quite the opposite.

[Doctor Crippen]

Homework should and usually is linked to the learning in that class that day and should promote numeracy and literacy. I would agree it could be reduced both in primary and secondary but the emphasis on home work comes for the department of education in reality and when inspectors arrive out to schools they want to see student copies, they want to see teacher feedback in those copies, so its a bit of a merry go round.

Interesting article from last year caught my eye in relation to levels of literacy and I wonder is it linked to developments around home work and class work

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/literacy-standards-among-irish-graduates-have-dropped-significantly-oecd-37836017.html