Best Thrash band

[Pedrito]

You yourself referred to Megadeth as being an "original thrash band" and gave the example of them as being a band that moved on from thrash with RIP. That's why I asked specifically about Peace Sells. So now even they don't make the cut. That's what I mean about your definition being very rigid and specific.
I know about Mustaine referring to them as a speed metal band. When I was discovering metal in the early 90s, thrash and speed were interchangeable terms. Speed metal means something else now though: Mostly European lads playing Iron Maiden riffs at warp speed with falsetto vocals.

My point about Burn My Eyes is that because it was hugely successful while updating the thrash formula, bands like Forbidden, Testament, Slayer, Sacred Reich etc. suddenly started down tuning and getting groovy, seemingly just to stay relevant.

Look a lot of this arguably comes down to semantics, what you're calling thrash, I would argue leans more into crossover territory. There's just so much golden era "thrash" stuff  that doesn't fit into that bracket though.

I take your points about lazy journalism and retrospectively applying the term to anything with teeth in the 80s, Metal Church and Motorhead being two examples but I think you're just being a bit too heavy handed with the yardstick.

I'm just telling you what it was at the time when the term was coined and why it was coined. Thrash is a definite style of Metal and, when asked for a definition, I was able to give one which explains why those bands were put together at the time, highlighting the sonic characteristic which linked them before it became a marketing tag. I referred to RIP because people keep talking about it being a thrash classic, it was mentioned several times in this thread as such. Where is the thrash in it? Poison was the Cure? Polaris? It's so much more than thrash. Calling it a thrash album does it a massive disservice. So much stuff which wasn't thrash but was lazily called thrash over the years has diluted the term to have fuck all meaning, but I put Giggles' question to you - What is your definition of  "thrash album", or a "thrash song"?

Burn My Eyes came out in 94? Thrash was long gone by then. AJFA, 1988. Persistence of Time, Obnoxious, 1990. Mental Vortex, Dilute to Taste, 1991, Kin, Renewal, The Ritual, Force of Habit, Art of Rebellion, 1992. Chaos AD, Independent, Sound of White Noise, 1993. So many bands had moved on and experiemented with slower, heavier, more groove orientated Metal long, long before Burn My Eyes was ever released. There was nothing sudden about it. Several years of Death Metal and the likes of Cowboys from Hell and Vulgar Display would arguably have had an influence in that but Burn My Eyes just isn't a factor in any of those bands other than when Vio-Lence split up in 92/93.

Speed metal means something else now though: Mostly European lads playing Iron Maiden riffs at warp speed with falsetto vocals.

Is that not power metal? That also used to be something else 30 years ago 

Juggz is spot on with all of his definitions. RIP nor Justice nor South of Heaven are thrash. Always loved the term Speed Metal, and, yes, it's something very different indeed. Machine head never have been or never will be Thrash. They're some sort of post thrash jugga metal.

[Juggz]

Isn't 'speed metal' just what the yanks called thrash? That's how I always took it anyway. Stupid, stupid, meaningless phrase regardless, along with 'hair metal' (which isn't a thing).

Thrash is as broad a genre term as death metal has become over the years, with plenty of variation under the umbrella. Writing off so many indisputable thrash classics because they don't fit one's personal definition is a bit silly and dismissive.

Hair metal is a thing mate. They had the corresponding look to go with the name.

Hair metal is a recent term. It used to be called glam rock or just heavy metal back then. It's probably because most of the lads don't have hair anymore, pouffy or otherwise 

[Carnage]

It's not the 'hair' element I dispute, it's the 'metal' part. Rock'n'roll, glam rock, hard rock etc. are more accurate.

[Kurt Cocaine]

It's not the 'hair' element I dispute, it's the 'metal' part. Rock'n'roll, glam rock, hard rock etc. are more accurate.

Yep, I always knew it as Glam or Glam Rock.

[Blackout]

I remember a few interviews with members of the big 4 et al and they refer to it as hair metal. Therefore I, a mere minion of metal, shall refer to it as such. 

[Ducky]

It's not the 'hair' element I dispute, it's the 'metal' part. Rock'n'roll, glam rock, hard rock etc. are more accurate.

I always refer to those bands as "shower of cunts", but sure look.

[Don Gately]

Justice is definitely thrash, Dyers Eve, Shortest Straw, Blackened come on!

[Pedrito]

Glam rock is Pedo Gary Glitter. Glam metal is Poison and Motley Crue

[Ducky]

Justice is definitely thrash, Dyers Eve, Shortest Straw, Blackened come on!

If we're ignoring Justice as a thrash record for its mid-paced songs then Ride and Puppets should be excluded too (Fade to Black is a ballad FFS).

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Ride and Puppets have two or three thrash songs each with a couple other songs with thrash sections. Not to put too fine a point on it, but both have just as much if not more classical music sections. Are they albums of classical music? No. Are they albums of thrash metal? No.

[Pedrito]

Metallica were always more than thrash or anything else. They couldn't be put in a box, because they were always 5 steps ahead of every other band. There's a reason they're massive, and it's not all some cynical plot to attract audiences. They were simply incredible in their prime which, for me, goes all the way to the Black album. Not their fault every spa liked Enter Sandman, it's still a top tune.

[Bogmetaller]

Metallica were always more than thrash or anything else. They couldn't be put in a box, because they were always 5 steps ahead of every other band. There's a reason they're massive, and it's not all some cynical plot to attract audiences. They were simply incredible in their prime which, for me, goes all the way to the Black album. Not their fault every spa liked Enter Sandman, it's still a top tune.

Yes but if you were to pick the most gifted musician of the big 4 you'd pick Mustaine. If Metallica had never used the songs he had written and they had became Megadeth songs instead would we look at things differently? A hypothetical situation of the highest order of course I know. Realistically Mustaines singing possibly prevented them from being even bigger.

[Trev]

Yes but if you were to pick the most gifted musician of the big 4 you'd pick Mustaine.

Nah I'd probably say Benante, fantastic drummer and a great guitarist too

[Pedrito]

Metallica were always more than thrash or anything else. They couldn't be put in a box, because they were always 5 steps ahead of every other band. There's a reason they're massive, and it's not all some cynical plot to attract audiences. They were simply incredible in their prime which, for me, goes all the way to the Black album. Not their fault every spa liked Enter Sandman, it's still a top tune.

Yes but if you were to pick the most gifted musician of the big 4 you'd pick Mustaine. If Metallica had never used the songs he had written and they had became Megadeth songs instead would we look at things differently? A hypothetical situation of the highest order of course I know. Realistically Mustaines singing possibly prevented them from being even bigger.

I'd def agree. I voted Megadeth  it's very hard though to distinguish between Metallica, Megadeth or Slayer for me. They're all massive. I think Metallica, on a macro level, were just a lot more diverse in sounds and song types amongst a variety of other factors. Doesn't make them better, but it does make them far more popular. I think the variety of lyrical themes was important. The singing style is important. The 'technicality' is probably more accessible. The look, the myth they created aroubd themselves with a back story that was being pushed quite early. They seem to have known exactly how to market themselves from cery early on, whereas the others don't seem to have been son concerned. I wonder if Lars was the brains behind all of that or is there some shadowy figure in the background who was guiding them?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Slayer were just too heavy and Megadeth never managed to take themselves 100% seriously for the length of an entire album; that's how Metallica managed initially to resonate with a much wider audience where the others of the big four failed. MoP is fully tuned into sounds and themes that strike a primal cord in almost anyone (with the minimum requisite open-mindedness) who sits down and spends time with it.