Tropes, Clichés, metal group think

[open face surgery]

Attitude and atmosphere trump technicality in nearly all cases.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Photo-realism is cool in small doses, but it's not what art is all about. Same applies for technical ability in music. I can enjoy what a player can do for a certain amount of time, but what I'm interested in is what they have to say and how they choose to say it.

[astfgyl]

I think it's great when players with obvious serious technical ability choose to only let it out in brief flashes rather than composing whole tunes of it. The payoff that way is much more satisfying. The technical stuff can be done in very tasteful ways without beating everyone over the head with it. Devin Townsend is someone who seems to be forever trying to walk that tightrope between melody and technicality, with varying degrees of success. Got it spot on with Terria though.

Another thing. People are always saying Nirvana's tunes are really easy to play, but I've yet to hear anybody getting one of the solos right.

[Trev]

Aye fantastic playing is always great but the song should always be first. There seems to have been a huge surge in techdeath over the last few years, and its a genre I really like, but theres so many bands just blasting at 280bpm over a shitload of sweeps for every song. All the better ones know how to mix it up

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Another thing. People are always saying Nirvana's tunes are really easy to play, but I've yet to hear anybody getting one of the solos right.

I had quite a long post about this, about how music is about channeling, but I started boring myself writing it so reduced the whole thing to the above!

[Juggz]

Attitude and atmosphere trump technicality in nearly all cases.

Nah. Sid Vicious had attitude to spare but he was fucking useless other than in his role as a useless cunt. It's all about balance. Attitude without ability is as bad as ability without attitude. If you get someone who can skilfully blend the two you get great, great art. Think Friedman on RIP or Tommy Vetterli on Mental Vortex, it required immense technical skill alongside sublime taste to bring that music to such great heights. Cobain was never as bereft of ability as he let on plus he had the immensly skilled Grohl drumming for him. Great music is great music and some cunt pretending he can't play but throwing shapes seldom makes for great art.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

some cunt pretending he can't play but throwing shapes seldom makes for great art.

Except in Hamburg, where knowing how to have a good time is more important...

https://youtu.be/f36fkktbM0Q?t=412

[Ducky]

Most musicians that are branded as having attitude are still competent players though. They're not virtuosos by any means, but their material still requires musical skill to play.

I think my favourite of "attitude" is Mary Timoney (of Autoclave, Helium, Wild Flag, Ex Hex, her own solo stuff). She studied jazz and classical guitar, at one point her teacher said "we can't actually teach her anymore, she's that good", yet most of her music is three chord stuff (Autoclave has some mad time signatures going on at least).

[leatherface]

This is not necessarily to do with metal but I thought I would put it here. There is a general ´'consensus' amongst bloggers and journalists that 'Rock is dead'. Their evidence is that is doesn't pull in any 'young' audiences (or 'markets' to use a colder term). Is this really the case and is it also the case for metal? A cursory glance at this forum shows that there are plenty of bands out there, even though I might not know all of the bands you all speak of I still see a vibrant 'scene'. Would be interested to see views on this.

[astfgyl]

Where does Justin Broadrick fit in, in the technical ability vs attitude multiplied by pure channeling while we're at it? I've only seen youtube videos but he is something to behold in full swing

Edit: Wait, I'm lying, I saw Jesu supporting Isis back in the day and he was thrashing all over the place to the slowest possible music

[Pedrito]

This is not necessarily to do with metal but I thought I would put it here. There is a general ´'consensus' amongst bloggers and journalists that 'Rock is dead'. Their evidence is that is doesn't pull in any 'young' audiences (or 'markets' to use a colder term). Is this really the case and is it also the case for metal? A cursory glance at this forum shows that there are plenty of bands out there, even though I might not know all of the bands you all speak of I still see a vibrant 'scene'. Would be interested to see views on this.

You took the words.right out of my mouth...these are the things I'm talking about. Ok physical.album sales might be down but I'd imagine on a global level metal or rock has never had such an audience with youtube, spotify etc

[Pedrito]

Attitude and atmosphere trump technicality in nearly all cases.

Nah. Sid Vicious had attitude to spare but he was fucking useless other than in his role as a useless cunt. It's all about balance. Attitude without ability is as bad as ability without attitude. If you get someone who can skilfully blend the two you get great, great art. Think Friedman on RIP or Tommy Vetterli on Mental Vortex, it required immense technical skill alongside sublime taste to bring that music to such great heights. Cobain was never as bereft of ability as he let on plus he had the immensly skilled Grohl drumming for him. Great music is great music and some cunt pretending he can't play but throwing shapes seldom makes for great art.

If I agreed any more people would start talking. All top, top musicians in Nirvana. Friedman another great example. Supposedly Mustaine has to teach him some of the solos on RIP, that's how good Mustaine was too. They're all playing at that sweet spot within their abilities, that's why it all looks so good and feels so good and has that beautiful professional vibe off it. And if I'm being very honest, plenty of the more blasty, fast stuff is often covering up some limitations. Not all bands of course, but there's a good few. Just gets lost in the mix.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I think even Mustaine, who'd tell you he taught his own mother how to give birth if he thought he could get away with it, limited himself to saying he had to correct Friedman's rhythm playing on some riffs. His strategy for being the best "something" guitarist was to stake his claim to greatest rhythm player; more important to beat James than Kirk, who he just decided was shite, although "did his best with what he knows how to do" haha.

[Circlepit]

So many excellent points on this discussion except for you misguided chaps that don't appreciate how totally brilliant Motörhead are. I love them and I know a lot of it sounds the same but they are still a top 5 band for me.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Sure the ring-leader thinks the creators of No Quarter and Achilles Last Stand are a "beginner" band, so I wouldn't worry about it too much