The Donald vs Big Tech

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You should probably get a pager, Chris, so these important questions from the bizarrely outraged can be answered swiftly, minimising their exposure to stress?

A minicall, to go with my French persona.

[Pedrito]

That's making too much sense Kev. Surely you should know by now that if you look for racism you'll definitely find it and all that other stuff is just speculation and conjecture.

Culture, culture, culture. Different cultures have different objectives and focusses. A lot of the Asian success in the Universities in the States is due to the  attitudes to education in the home. Charles Barkley talks here about the differences in African American vs other communities in relation to goals and objectives for kids:

https://youtu.be/zGFWBddzaAw

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

What I'm getting at is, and we clearly disagree on the existence of systemic racism, or more accurately, how significant it is,  Asians are over represented in STEM fields, at least in the US, so is it only to the benefit of white people, or are Asians (who do better in most areas of life which can be statistically measured than whites) also benificiaries?

Asian people in the US and in Europe generally have more money than African-Americans, they even have more money than whites in the US on average, if I'm not mistaken, and often they have a totally different attitude to study and scholarly achievement. Even in Europe, it takes money to stay in university, because every year you stay in is another year you could have been out working. If you use your undergraduate degree to get a decent job somewhere, you'll be making more money every year than your peers who stay in university for the next 5 to 6 years, at the very least. Another thing that struck me during my studies, and I see it again now with the students I teach, is the enormous disadvantage of students who, for whatever reason, have to work part-time outside of college compared to those whose families cover everything. As for university in the US and the aul money situation...

More generally, I don't get what point you're trying to make. If the scientific community itself says that there is what it sees as under-representation, what is it to you??

[Pedrito]

I feel a catfight coming on

[Caomhaoin]

What's it to me? Well nothing really, as it has no effect on my life, it doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on the issue. Does one have to be directly involved in something to have or express an opinion on it?

I'm making the point that individual choice may play a more of a role than you think, and perhaps it's not all discrimination of one variety or another

I worked part time all through college, and it wasn't because I'm from an underprivileged background. It was because my auld fella wanted to teach me the value of a quid. I also taught English on Erasmus for the same reason. I had to do it if I wanted a few quid for my grub or a book. I did perfectly fine in college, by the way.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I also worked, but it was still a disadvantage compared to those who didn't have to, especially among those who were hoping to continue in academia (ie public research in STEM) as a career, because the competition is enormous.

[Pedrito]

Many of them Asians come from immigrant families that broke their bollix to get them where they are too. Different strokes, different folks, different objectives.

[Emphyrio]

Do people not work during college? I imagine those would be a tiny minority.

[Caomhaoin]

Almost all of my circle from home had a job, at least at the weekends. The bird I used to go out In college with who is now a doctor worked part time in a nursing home, didn't affect her marks at all.

[Eoin McLove]

If there is an anti-education sentiment in parts of the black community in the US, then that is something that needs to change. Maybe these communities need their Jordan Peterson to remind them that they have a certain amount of power to improve their circumstances. Choosing not to engage in criminal activity and to get a job is a great first step- this of course applies equally to any sub-set of society regardless of gender,  race,  religion etc. Role models who will instil self-worth rather than perpetuating a sense of victimhood, without being dismissed as Uncle Toms will be the real heroes for those communities- not hysterical,  looting maniacs with an axe to grind.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

[Eoin McLove]

Shit Chris,  did you just realise you undermined every argument you have ever made on these forums a few pages ago when you outed yourself as a "far left socialist".

D'oh indeed!

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Your arguments are the equivalent of telling depressed people to be happy. I mean, that's basically what I got out of Coleman Hughes' arguments too, so it's not your fault, but it's not a solution because it misdiagnoses the problem.

[Pedrito]

Hmmm. Have a look at the little scummers causing hassle around Dublin. They´ re all wearing the latest fashion, have the latest phones etc. Money is far from their biggest issue...if anything they´ re too comfortable and a day´ s work might keep them out of mischief. Yes, of course, poverty is an awful, crippling thing, but we can´ t explain everything away in purely economic terms. There is definitely an anti education culture in many areas of society. The travelling community is a great example, a lot of them have plenty money, the Gypsies here in Spain literally encourage their kids away from education. So, again, like everything there´ s no one answer to it, but changing perceptions and showing people the possibilities can only help.

[Eoin McLove]

No,  it's more nuanced than that.  It's about instilling a sense of value in these people.  It's about having real role models.  It's about the trap of perpetuating a model of single parent households that a lot of these communities are locked into.  It's about the cognitive dissonance that seems to exist within the African American consciousness (at least according to any of the black spokespersons I've been listening to) that says that even if they are successful,  they are still oppressed.  It is about taking responsibly for your actions and not engaging in activity that will put you in direct conflict with the law- that's where the role models need to come in. I'm not simply saying,  hey stop being so poor! I'm saying that while the system is imperfect,  there are personal ways to approach your own life,  if you choose to,  that can make it better and maybe make it even better again for your kids and so on. 

Edit: I haven't listened to much Coleman Hughes, but I will.  I have been listening to several fantastic discussions between Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. I also listened to a brilliant discussion between that scary Nazi Dave Rubin and Tommy Sotomayor. Maybe these guys aren't black enough for you,  I don't know,  but they seem sensible and intelligent to me.