Coronavirus

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

An asylum seeker isn't an illegal immigrant, regardless of how they entered the country they're seeking asylum in (presuming the country in question has asylum laws), unless their asylum is refused and they nevertheless stay on. So even where the act of crossing the border may be seen by some as "illegal", such a border crossing is the only way of attaining the legal state (make note of difference between an act and a state) of asylum/refugee claimant. There's the nuance that means referring to all of them as if they're criminals is erroneous. This isn't specific to Canada, but it was safe enough to assume it applied there too that when I did a two click research, there were no surprises.

[Caomhaoin]

Doing something illegal and being a criminal are not mutually exclusive. There's another nuance for you.

[Eoin McLove]

Shut your boring holes,  you cunts.  Nuancehammer!

[astfgyl]

"Data from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre, from midnight, Thursday 14 May (relating to 23,879 cases), reveals that 57% are female and 42% are male with a median age for confirmed cases of 48.

3,092 cases (13%) have been hospitalised, 389 of whom were admitted to ICU."

So out of around 1500 deaths, 389 made it to ICU? Anyone have any thoughts around what happened to the rest? Did it suddenly get them before they could make it to hospital or did they die on the ward without being sent to ICU or were they somewhere they couldn't be moved from like a home or such like? I'm usually missing something obvious so if anyone has any idea, what is the story with that?

Otherwise, today's figures are encouraging but that is to be expected given the lockdown. Italy have taken an interesting stance given how badly they were affected as well, by deciding to forgo the quarantine requirement for inbound arrivals (and border hopping illegally entering asylum seekers who may or may not prove legal in the long run lol) but it brings us back to the risk of loss of life vs risk of loss of livelihood debate again and Italy seem to have decided enough is enough when it comes to the tourism sector.

[Caomhaoin]

Shut your boring holes,  you cunts.  Nuancehammer!

🤣🤣

Cheers for the chuckle. TOMMY OUT

[hellfire]

An asylum seeker isn't an illegal immigrant, regardless of how they entered the country they're seeking asylum in (presuming the country in question has asylum laws), unless their asylum is refused and they nevertheless stay on. So even where the act of crossing the border may be seen by some as "illegal", such a border crossing is the only way of attaining the legal state (make note of difference between an act and a state) of asylum/refugee claimant. There's the nuance that means referring to all of them as if they're criminals is erroneous. This isn't specific to Canada, but it was safe enough to assume it applied there too that when I did a two click research, there were no surprises.

Under The Dublin agreement asylum seekers are required to make a claim in the first safe country they land in. Given that there are so few direct flights between Ireland and a lot of the regions where claims are made from they should be turned back right away.

[Emphyrio]

An asylum seeker isn't an illegal immigrant, regardless of how they entered the country they're seeking asylum in (presuming the country in question has asylum laws), unless their asylum is refused and they nevertheless stay on. So even where the act of crossing the border may be seen by some as "illegal", such a border crossing is the only way of attaining the legal state (make note of difference between an act and a state) of asylum/refugee claimant. There's the nuance that means referring to all of them as if they're criminals is erroneous. This isn't specific to Canada, but it was safe enough to assume it applied there too that when I did a two click research, there were no surprises.

Under The Dublin agreement asylum seekers are required to make a claim in the first safe country they land in. Given that there are so few direct flights between Ireland and a lot of the regions where claims are made from they should be turned back right away.

That conversation deserves its own thread cos it's very complex. But, I'd agree with what you say there. The lads are getting right stuck in and it's very interesting!

Statistics...? You only have to look at Declan Rice to see the flaws in statistical analysis!

[jobrok1]

Came across this yesterday.
An interesting watch. Not sure what to take away from it though, as this fella is always moaning about stuff. Probably a case of half truths lost in a sea of conspiring ramblings.

https://youtu.be/Avc6_ftzk3w

[hellfire]

That lad is prone to exaggeration, paranoia and outright lies. I'm familiar with Dr Cahill, voted for her in the last election. Not doing much for her credibility by doing an interview with him.  That said I'd be shocked if RTE or any of the main papers agreed to question her.

[astfgyl]

While I am inclined to agree with what she is saying and it supports a lot of my own thoughts and feelings around the whole situation I am equally inclined to block out yer man as much as I can as I feel he is getting in the way of what she is saying. He should have let her speak without leading it to other things to allow us all to make our own minds up on what she is saying rather than associating her with the usual Bill Gates and MSM thing which is always dismissed out of hand by 99% of people.

In the interests of balancing my own bias out with a small bit of research, I checked the number of deaths on rip.ie from April 2017, April 2018 and April 2019 and compared those with April 2020.

The results are:

April 2017 - 3194 Deaths.
April 2018 - 3476 Deaths.
April 2019 - 3487 Deaths.
April 2020 - 4934 Deaths.

The average taken from the first 3 years is 3386. Which leaves April 2020 at 1548 deaths above the average of the previous 3 years.

It still doesn't change what she says about vaccination not being the solution and still doesn't change the idea that the worldwide approach taken got out of hand very quickly, or what she says regarding social distancing and the manner of reporting. The fact there were 1500 deaths above average in a single month is worth thinking about though. My own take is that the vulnerable groups should have been looked after first and foremost but not in the way it was applied to basically everybody. There is for sure a narrative being spun here but it is not baseless by any means. I think the all-in approach taken by our government here was riddled with mistakes and hysteria but won't be rowed back on now and they will continue to provide evidence that only backs up what they have done rather than backs up the idea that they went too far and continue to do so. The evidence now is showing that schools probably shouldn't have been closed down and suddenly come reports of a Kawasaki Disease type of illness affecting children on the RTE website and the narrative that they did the right thing continues.

The whole lockdown approach to compensate for the expected surge was necessary due to the fact that our national health service was in shit. That is the fault of successive governments, not of the citizens. We pay our taxes, and they decide which wall to piss them up against as has always been the case. They piss our money away on imaginary banking debt for years while the banks continue to prosper, they piss it away on exorbitant and needless consultation fees before a block is ever laid on the worlds most expensive hospital in the worlds most inappropriate site with costs spiralling out of control and no desire to row back on it whatsoever in spite of it being a doomed project from the beginning. The money we have in this country that could have been pumped into fixing the health service from all types of angles is regularly pissed away on nothing at all. That is why we are locked down, and now they have to double down on the narrative that this is not years of failures by successive short sighted governments coming back to haunt us in the most economy crippling fashion of all time and so the merry go round continues and the carousel of shite continues to turn in front of our eyes. And we are all fucking heroes and there is no fate but that which we make for ourselves as we are driven by our cunt of a government into our fate not of our own making which will be years of financial ruin and deprivation of basic freedoms such as walking into a shop without a fucking mask on. Made for ourselves indeed.

We will be the ones paying for this with our money and our freedoms and I think we should be all casting a critical eye on how this whole thing was approached from day one and how things are generally done in this fucking backward cunt of a country which has the potential to be an actual great and fair and wonderful country but keeps getting dragged down by the short sighted nature of government and the greed associated with personal gain which has blighted this country for decades. If there was to be anything good to come of all this it should be the fixing of the things that are actually wrong at the source and not the sticking plaster of a lockdown and severe public controls to keep the narrative going that the government are doing the right thing to save us poor joes from ourselves because we don't know how to wash our fucking hands or not visit granny when we are sick. The real sickness at play here is what is being done in front of our eyes on a constant basis and not just since covid 19 came into the picture.

But everybody will forget about all of that when we are kindly told we can now travel 20km sometime in June now that we have behaved ourselves for long enough. We have been truly heroic strolling our 2km and our 5km, and all of us are very good children.

[Juggz]

The whole lockdown approach to compensate for the expected surge was necessary because there isn't a health service in the world which was prepared for the glut of people needing treatment which mass exposure to Covid-19 would have brought. Not defending the mismanagement of public health for a second, but the people voted for this shit. It struck home in 2007 when, at the height of Celtic Tiger bullshittery and in the middle of a dying-on-trolleys-in-corridors epidemic, the people of this country saw fit to re-elect FF. This is what the people want, why would any government pour money into a health service when the people will vote them in for delivering a third-world service. Don't blame the politicians for this one when the people have given it a thumbs up. It's easy to continually blame to politicos but sometimes the people need to fucking own up and say "Yeah, I was grand with it because I could afford a house in Foxrock and I have a beemer so I voted for the same old shite."  But I digress...

There's no treatment for this thing, other than plying vitims with oxygen and steroids and hoping for the best, it would appear. Based on the experience of a mate, each patient will spend a few weeks in hospital, taking up resources and space which would otherwise be allocated to victims of other diseases and incidents. That is why there is a lockdown, not to treat Covid-19, but to leave space to treat everything else we have allocated resources, space and budget for based on past experience. There isn't a country in the the world who was prepared for this so there is no point rattling the pots and pans in that particular regard.

[Juggz]

Moving on slightly, has anyone watched any Bundesliga this weekend? Terribly dull. It has really highlighted just how important the crowd are to making football interesting. All those big money contracts are a thing of the past unless they can get crowds back into stadiums very quickly. It’s a fucking dull, dull game without the fans.

[astfgyl]

I would point to the fact that the Swedish health service appear to be doing ok with it. You make a fair point that the voter only cares about the now and not the bigger picture though. We sell ourselves out much too easily in this country. I don't dispute the initial locking down in fact I think it came too late as it was, but it is looking increasingly unnecessary as time goes on and it irritates me that no one can stand up and say ok we may have been overcautious but we have a different idea now as more evidence comes to light from our own experience and I would respect the government more for having a pair of balls in that regard. Also you say it was to compensate for the other regular stuff that needs to be done but there has been none of it getting done, as reported by all mainstream news outlets in this country so that is a bit of a debatable point. Also the fact that the vast majority of these reported deaths have come from nursing homes or have been from unreported settings really adds fuel to the idea that a mass lock down was not what was needed, but I will concede that this is all being learned as time goes on and wasn't immediately apparent so I can't argue with the initial decision only how it has been handled since and is still being handled.

Small bit of an edit here to wonder why only one line of thinking gets on to RTE or the radio stations and ever reaches the ears of the average citizen around all this. Like even if yer one isn't right about everything there, surely her area of expertise and her experience and her seemingly high standing in the scientific community affords her the right to be heard, even if it is only to be rubbished. It's terrible that all dissenting voices be reduced to appearing with the likes of the ginger lad in the video, who if anything will add fuel to the fire of her opinion being discredited.

I didn't see any of the Bundesliga but mostly because I had no urge to do so in spite of being starved of soccer for so long. Is it really that bad without the crowd? Maybe a bit of canned laughter would add to proceedings, it seems to work for shit comedies

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Herself diagnosed with a viral throat infection, just been tested to see if it's the coronavirus. She's barely been out, but once since lockdown easing a week ago here. Testing clinic said they've had a spike in calls for test appointments just over this weekend. Won't be going back to work tomorrow now until we get the results in the afternoon.

[astfgyl]

Hopefully that worry will soon be put to bed for you. As much as I give out about certain elements of all of this, I wouldn't disregard or minimize the effect it has on people. That is a decent turnaround time for results and I wish ye all the best with it.