The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[astfgyl]

This is an interesting one, I don't know if anyone remembers the story but it was a shitstorm back in November when people on social media claimed girls in a school in Carlow were told what to wear during PE because they were 'distracting' the male teachers, several politicians like Hazel Chu and Ruth Coppinger spread the story, as well as journalists from the likes of The Irish Times and The Journal.

If I was one of the male teachers I'd be looking at legal action as the reporting and social media posts heavily implied labelling them as paedophiles when it turns out nothing of the sort was said.

Typically, the ruling that there's no actual evidence of it happening has largely been ignored by the people who spread the story in the first place.

https://www.thejournal.ie/carlow-school-the-nationalist-tight-clothing-complaint-5472273-Jun2021/

And then the Journal went and deleted all the comments calling them out for being one of the chief ringleaders in the cicrus that followed the initial story.

The Journal is some fucking rag. I especially love how they turn off the comments on their "fact check" articles. A true disgrace to journalism.

[Kunt 4 Life]

It'll get to a stage whereby all it takes is some fella getting wrongly accused and ending his life over these types of accusations. Nobody will give a shit either as evidenced by the lack of empathy on the part of the multiple accusers in this case.

There was a story over the weekend stating the conviction rate for rape was disgracefully low and something needed to be done.

I was kinda a bit baffled as I'm not sure what or how they were suggesting to fix it.  Surely if there wasn't enough evidence they could hardly make a few guilty simply to get their quota for the week.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Your bafflement, if you gave a shit, would have been easy to clear up:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48095118

Victims abandoning prosecutions because the entire prosecution process is almost inherently traumatic, aggravated by a negative feedback loop resulting from very low probability of it leading to anything that makes the repeatedly relived trauma worth the distress, is a huge part of the problem, and one that can be vastly improved. Less baffled now I hope.

[Kunt 4 Life]

Cheers

[Eoin McLove]

I think it's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to this thorny topic. If the process can be made less traumatic for victims then that needs to happen. I think there are a tiny cohort of mad women who make false claims but I think it would be false to assume that they make up much of a percentage when compared to real cases. It goes without saying that there have to be structures in place to protect men who get falsely accused, too, but it's fair to say that the number of real cases reported to the police is a fraction of the number of real cases that occur.

It probably doesn't help that nobody can seem to agree what rape actually even is, and the #metoo movement might actually have served to muddy the water so much as to make it a near impossible task to figure that one out. Then again, I'm sure the law has firm lines on what constitutes rape as opposed to arse-pinchery etc.

[Blackout]

And the usual whataboutery and muddying the waters crops up from the same condescending pricks everytime anyone mentions false accusations.

[Eoin McLove]

Well yeah, that's my point. There are false accusations which need to be dealt with fairly, ie through public vindication of the accused. That doesn't mean that the many, many real cases need to be undermined by the few made up ones. Just because a few men get falsely accused (and as a man, I can think of few things that could be worse than getting falsely tarred with that particular brush) it doesn't mean that we have to treat every accusation with a disproportionate level of scepticism. I'm sure any reasonable person can agree that despite the few false claims, rape is indeed a real issue that should be taken seriously. That's what it boils down to when you strip away the usual left/right posturing.

[astfgyl]

I know a fella who was raped by a woman. When he woke up just went along with it and was pretty pleased telling me about it after. The question on my mind here is was he raped if he then became a willing participant? And the greater question, the actual serious question is around the difficulty in proving something like date rape and I would guess that plays a large part in cases not being resolved. The story is true though, but did she commit an offence?

[astfgyl]

This is an interesting one, I don't know if anyone remembers the story but it was a shitstorm back in November when people on social media claimed girls in a school in Carlow were told what to wear during PE because they were 'distracting' the male teachers, several politicians like Hazel Chu and Ruth Coppinger spread the story, as well as journalists from the likes of The Irish Times and The Journal.

If I was one of the male teachers I'd be looking at legal action as the reporting and social media posts heavily implied labelling them as paedophiles when it turns out nothing of the sort was said.

Typically, the ruling that there's no actual evidence of it happening has largely been ignored by the people who spread the story in the first place.

https://www.thejournal.ie/carlow-school-the-nationalist-tight-clothing-complaint-5472273-Jun2021/

Must go back and see what we were saying about it in here. I remember it though and I think a lot of people were saying it was overblown from the beginning although I don't think I was one of those.

So I had a look and tbh it was barely discussed here. My own response was

Phuck sake hai.... is nothing sacred any more? Fuming here.... 

https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2020/1124/1180237-carlow-school/

There are so many facets to the wrongness there I'm almost blowing a wrong fuse trying to figure out what about it fries the head off me the most

Just about ambiguous enough to claim I wasn't taken in by the furore. Possibly.

[Kunt 4 Life]

I know a fella who was raped by a woman. When he woke up just went along with it and was pretty pleased telling me about it after. The question on my mind here is was he raped if he then became a willing participant? And the greater question, the actual serious question is around the difficulty in proving something like date rape and I would guess that plays a large part in cases not being resolved. The story is true though, but did she commit an offence?

That happened in an episode of peep show if I recall.

Was your mate dating the woman at the time or what was the story. The worrying thing for your mate is if she was riddled with diseases or was looking to get knocked up.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

And the usual whataboutery and muddying the waters crops up from the same condescending pricks everytime anyone mentions false accusations.

Isn't "whataboutery" the spirit that best describes the vast majority of times false accusations are mobilized as a reason not to do something more about the crime of rape?? Not saying it's your case, but usually when I see it turned to, that's exactly what's being done, and with no regard for the relative statistical facts of the matter.

[astfgyl]

I know a fella who was raped by a woman. When he woke up just went along with it and was pretty pleased telling me about it after. The question on my mind here is was he raped if he then became a willing participant? And the greater question, the actual serious question is around the difficulty in proving something like date rape and I would guess that plays a large part in cases not being resolved. The story is true though, but did she commit an offence?

That happened in an episode of peep show if I recall.

Was your mate dating the woman at the time or what was the story. The worrying thing for your mate is if she was riddled with diseases or was looking to get knocked up.

No he wasn't going out with her and he wasn't into her either but he said when he woke up and she was sitting on him that he was happy enough to go along with it. It's a good few years ago so I reckon if he got anything off it he has been very quiet about it. It does sort of illustrate how muddied it can get around rape when it isn't your random attack on the street. Let's pretend he was badly disturbed by it, what's the situation then and as far as I see, it would be tough proving it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If your mate had been disturbed to the point of reporting himself as a rape victim, then he simply would have been in the same position as tens of thousands of girls who have woken up to a man having sex with them without explicit verbal consent. I.e. he wouldn't have much of a case at all, unless he could a) prove he asked for it to stop and b) prove that she didn't.

[astfgyl]

Yeah I agree, and therein lies the problem. There will always be far more rape than what is reported and as you say tens of thousands of unprovable cases. So while it's noble enough to say something should be done about it, (and I agree that something should) what is that something, and in the absence of a workable something isn't it just a load of hot air? Basically impossible to do anything about the stories other than hope that education and common decency is common enough to keep the numbers down to a relatively low percentage as I see it. The same idea applies though, let's say a fella wakes up his woman in the middle of the night with his mickey in her and even if they are married for 20 years is that not still technically rape if she isn't in the mood? It's shit like that makes it impossible to define most of it. "we were both drunk" is another one. We had this in the Manson thread as well and it just can't be sorted only along the lines of some sort of general societal morality, which seems to get more unlikely by the day.

[livingabortion]

Remember when that fucking Mutant George Hook made out that a girl who was raped when she went back to a lads room was basically asking for it? Fucking Scumbag.