The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[astfgyl]

Publishers, broadcasters, etc., always answer for content.

Ah ok. I always feel that when folks are going to be controversial, they should do it within the rules of the game and keep the inflammatory language to a minimum. If that is the norm then they are the rules and slipping up on the language to express the opinion is regrettable as it kills the debate. Much like the anti-mask crowd as in I feel like they would make their point a whole lot better if they followed the distance and mask rules while doing it. Not getting into the rights or wrongs of their point, just that they make an easy target by choosing to do it as they do. This seems to be similarly poorly thought through, and given the existence of editing software, the interviewer might have asked him to re-phrase the comment. Maybe Grimes just wants his 5 minutes, as I'd never heard of him prior to this.

He was disputing that slavery equated to genocide.

A tough sell in itself without the language used. Debate killed there by the misstep.

[Eoin McLove]

A thorny subject to be sure. Still an unbelievably spasticated comment but maybe I'll give the interview a listen at some point.

[Caomhaoin]

He's an eminent historian and his TV shows are excellent and accessible. He's fond of a pint at debates and interviews, I can't think of any other reason for a cultured man with a supreme command of the English language to come out with such an idiotic comment.

He's not short of a bob so he'll be grand, but the very public eviscerating if his character and destruction of his career is too much. He wrongly presumed that by being emphatic talking to Darren Grimes, talk radio or whatever it is, would keep him safe from the mob.

In conclusion, considering the world we live in, and with all the other absurd shite the police in the UK are being obliged to do, he should have known better.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Did the interviewer of that rapper who said all that anti-semetic guff have to 'answer' for the content? I can't recall a similar incidence and certainly not one becoming a police matter as this has.

Which interviewer? The YouTube channel? In about the same time it took you to make that supposition, I was able to find out that the YouTube channel in question published the interview accompanied by an explicit disclaimer. Maybe Grimes did the same, maybe he didn't. If you really care about the comparison you drew, you can find that out for yourself.

The charge itself is a complete misnomer in any case, 'stirring up racial hatred'. How? Starkey only stirred up hatred against himself. He said something which was politically incorrect, end of story.

He didn't say something that was merely "politically incorrect." He said something which, even minus the word "damn", is devoid of logic and apt, as such, only to fuel rhetoric, such as that which you hold, that black communities today are exaggerating their historic lot. To this end, his apology was worse than the initial statement, because it only confirmed this. Whatever happens to his life and career now, he invited it in, once in the heat of the moment, a second time in toff-nosed "cool" reflection.

[Caomhaoin]

Black communities are exaggerating their historic lot? That's a stretch, but that's your patter.

Equating slavery to genocide (and focussing only on the Atlantic slave trade) is a fallacy, in real terms, regardless of his choice of expression. Were  Barbary pirates equally culpable of the charge? Or the Arabs whose trade was on a far grander scale?

How can a comment which has been panned by all sides 'fuel rhetoric'? He expressed himself poorly, but his position is, for all intents and purposes, correct. Genocide is defined as the, or the attempted, destruction, of a racial or ethnic group. Surely slavers (who dealt with African middlemen) would be biting off their collective nose to spite their face if they intended on the destruction of the black 'race', whatever that is.

And quelle surprise that your are dancing with glee ata man losing a decades long, stellar academic career for a stupid comment because you find him distasteful. Your neo-stasi buddies have done him up like a kipper so why wouldn't you be?

Yeah?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Black communities are exaggerating their historic lot? That's a stretch, but that's your patter.

Equating slavery to genocide (and focussing only on the Atlantic slave trade) is a fallacy, in real terms, regardless of his choice of expression. Were  Barbary pirates equally culpable of the charge? Or the Arabs whose trade was on a far grander scale?

How can a comment which has been panned by all sides 'fuel rhetoric'? He expressed himself poorly, but his position is, for all intents and purposes, correct. Genocide is defined as the, or the attempted, destruction, of a racial or ethnic group. Surely slavers (who dealt with African middlemen) would be biting off their collective nose to spite their face if they intended on the destruction of the black 'race', whatever that is.

And quelle surprise that your are dancing with glee ata man losing a decades long, stellar academic career for a stupid comment because you find him distasteful. Your neo-stasi buddies have done him up like a kipper so why wouldn't you be?

Yeah?

Not dancing with glee; just couldn't care less what becomes of him. Remarking that he invited what is happening upon himself is not "dancing wtih glee." You, on the other hand, are lamenting his lot. I'm honestly unmoved by it. And if tomorrow he is completely exonerated, I'll remain unmoved.

[Caomhaoin]

I respect Starkey, and it saddens me somewhat that he's now far more famous for his controversial comments on the telly and the internet than he is for his considerable scholarship. His four parter about Henry VIII, his Anne Boleyn biography etc are consummate pieces of work. It's not the first spicy thing he has said, presumably it'll be the last.

But the bigger picture is that he has been cut to pieces despite apologising, yet another casualty in a culture war which has no meritorious endgame. He apologised, what more do they want? I wonder if they are aware that he is a homosexual? Being Vietnamese didn't save Andy Ngo so I guess that doesn't matter.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If we take him at face value here, then he doesn't understand what he should be apologizing for, since he boils it all down to the use of the word "damn." Though of course, his audience in that medium is fellow conservatives. All things considered, I call "mauvaise foi":
https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/september-2020/the-day-i-was-cancelled/

[Kurt Cocaine]

Another piece to add to the madness....

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/blm-button-no-tip-receipt/

[astfgyl]

I'm torn between the idea that these folks should know better and the idea that their personal political views should be their own to express provided it doesn't interfere with the execution of their duties. Like the waitress is allowed to express a certain view without fear of repercussion, why should the customer not have the same freedom even when expressing the opposite - albeit less popular - opinion?

[Kurt Cocaine]

He was a twat for putting it on his FB....

[astfgyl]

Yeah that's how I'm leaning as well. The only sticking point for me is would he be the same level of twat if he was virtue signalling for BLM on his FB? He could have simply not tipped and been done with it I guess.

[Kurt Cocaine]

The whole thing is a mega-shitshow. Top to bottom, left to right.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

He was a twat for putting it on his FB....

2020 summed up: Felons getting murdered to the left of me, twats getting cancelled to the right; here I am, stuck in confinement with you.

[Kurt Cocaine]

He was a twat for putting it on his FB....

2020 summed up: Felons getting murdered to the left of me, twats getting cancelled to the right; here I am, stuck in confinement with you.

I'd tell 2020 to fuck off only for the fear of 2021 being actually fucking worsen....