The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[astfgyl]

Do you think the government could be more pragmatic at all in their approach to the immigration situation and that if they were then maybe we wouldn't have to make excuses for the political bias of your favourite news outlets?

Anyway it matters not because none of it will change anything and if you think that governments of the western world have been suddenly overcome with compassion for the needy well that doesn't matter either. Nothing will change any of it, the response to reports or lack of them. Ah well...

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Ah, you've finally seen through my thin veneer, spread across two decades and thousands of posts, to get to the deep truth: I secretly love FFG and think they and everything they do is the absolute biz. Grr, you pesky kids!

[astfgyl]

Ah, you've finally seen through my thin veneer, spread across two decades and thousands of posts, to get to the deep truth: I secretly love FFG and think they and everything they do is the absolute biz. Grr, you pesky kids!

Ah fuck off lad you can see it yourself what I think of it all it's not as if I've been terribly inconsistent myself.

Happy Friday man!! 

[mickO)))]

https://www.newstalk.com/news/citywest-asylum-seekers-so-happy-to-have-local-election-vote-1730928

[astfgyl]

https://www.newstalk.com/news/citywest-asylum-seekers-so-happy-to-have-local-election-vote-1730928

That's actually ridiculous. Joke of a country. Pure ball of lads bouncing in from the UK now as well and they can vote as well. Makes a mockery of everything. Mad thing is that I actually think we should as decent people help refugees and assimilate them etc but we're a basket case now and the piss is being ripped out of us. You wouldn't believe some of the shit I've come across. Met a lad yesterday who has no passport but has an Irish driving licence that he didn't have last week. Fuckin nuts is what it all is and the upshot of it all is that people are getting convinced that foreigners are bad

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The right for non-citizens resident in Ireland to participate in local elections (only) has been written into law since the sixties. Can understand why some might reflexively balk at the idea, but I also understand the general democratic principles that would have inspired it being put in place in the first place: possibility to participate in one's immediate community being generally considered socially more positive than being barred from doing so. What's the biggest concrete negative that's resulted from that law so far?

[The Butcher]

The right for non-citizens resident in Ireland to participate in local elections (only) has been written into law since the sixties. Can understand why some might reflexively balk at the idea, but I also understand the general democratic principles that would have inspired it being put in place in the first place: possibility to participate in one's immediate community being generally considered socially more positive than being barred from doing so. What's the biggest concrete negative that's resulted from that law so far?

Do we really need to point out the difference in demographics from the 1960s to 2020s...and the shaping of that question is so disingenuous.

We currently have a situation where non-citizens are landing into certain areas and changing the demographics in their favour overnight. How could anyone like the idea of the door being open to disproportionate representation by sidelining locals is beyond me. The balance of power has the potential to completely shift. Example -> 80 IPAS heading for Dundrum Co Tipperary, which had a population of 221 at census 2022. Lisdoonvarna where refugees mainly from Ukraine outnumber locals two to one.

Wouldn't you think they would vote for representatives who would primarily cater to the needs of the new "residents", potentially neglecting the established community? Also local councillors vote on who gets into the Seanad, senators which vote on Dail legislation and can introduce new legislation. So indirectly this impact national policies.

Out of the top 29 IPAS Source countries only a handful have smaller populations than Ireland, this cannot continue at these unsustainable rates, look at that list of countries, completely fine, social cohesion is nothing to worry about ->

[The Butcher]

There is nothing wrong for looking for sensible polices in the areas of immigration/IPAS and it's extremely frustrating seeing how this is being played out by media and politicians. Interesting to see how the local/EU elections pan out.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Course the demographics have changed, and if the citizenry think the law needs changing to match those changes, then that's a discussion/vote that can be had. I just asked what, up to this point, has been the biggest concrete negative to have come from the fact that non-citizens can vote in local elections. Given that there's been a lot of them eligible to vote for around 20 years now, albeit not so much in rural areas until more recently, that's another change on top of the overall demographic one.

[Caomhaoin]

The right for non-citizens resident in Ireland to participate in local elections (only) has been written into law since the sixties. Can understand why some might reflexively balk at the idea, but I also understand the general democratic principles that would have inspired it being put in place in the first place: possibility to participate in one's immediate community being generally considered socially more positive than being barred from doing so. What's the biggest concrete negative that's resulted from that law so far?

1) Baulk

2) You suck.

3) Wicklander Raus

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I stopped blanket deferring to the Queen's/King's English a long time ago.

[astfgyl]

I think the non citizen vote in the sixties wouldn't have been as significant as now. It probably wasn't a bad idea at the time tbf but I doubt anyone would have been planning for the current numbers when thinking of it. It'll be interesting to see how it goes but it seems like a bad idea in the present to me.

Everything is about the extremes these days though isn't it? You have on the one hand the Auslander Raus and on the other a desire to import the third world without limits and both are wrong imo. There's always a reasonable middle ground and nobody seems to want to occupy it. It's as if there's no desire to fix anything really as long as there's money being made.

[The Butcher]

I just asked what, up to this point, has been the biggest concrete negative to have come from the fact that non-citizens can vote in local elections.

So fecking what lad? You seem to like to narrow the discussion by the way you frame your fatuous questions - Same could have been said about the blasphemy law that people were giving out about 6 years ago which led to the referendum in 2018 - you could ask that exact same question, what has been the biggest concrete negative outcome of the blasphemy law - well...there was absolutely no prosecutions under it so why get rid of any dangerous law if it hasn't *done* negative anything yet? Bizarre.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Totally standard empirical approach to any question that involves predicting the future. I framed my question in response to the detailed consequences you were imagining could happen. It's not in any way bizarre to tether predictions to concrete reality, because it's not saying the real past cancels out the potential future, but looking at it does help with keeping those predictions grounded. Loads of countries grant voting of one sort or another to non-citizens, so the debate over the pros and cons of it is vast, containing shit loads of data. I've never looked at it in detail so I've no idea how likely it is for non-citizens to "vote for representatives who would primarily cater to the needs of the new "residents", potentially neglecting the established community." I don't even know how likely it is for such established community-neglecting representatives to exist, so apologies for not instantly taking the suggestion of it with deadly seriousness just because it can be articulated.

The blasphemy law was a dumb relic of a bygone superstitious age... during which the Irish people were encouraged to pay more attention to baseless predictions (about the after-life) than to concrete reality. It had no place in the law of any modern, post-Enlightenment nation. The question of laws around universal suffrage and its limits couldn't be any further removed from it.

[astfgyl]

To be fair the time between the last local elections and the coming ones has seen a massive and unprecedented demographic change that makes the point pointless that it hasn't been a bad thing before. It's quite obvious that government parties are pandering to the asylum seeker vote as they do with any other potential supporters so I expect it'll have an impact this time around.

Funny story in the Times at the minute about the asylum loopholes being used by convicts to avoid deportation at the end of their sentences which illustrates the general stupidity of the rules we currently operate under. Like I said earlier we are a basket case when it comes to migration and I hope it gets sorted before things turn sour altogether.

Anyone see the headlines from the German stabbing incident actually? Very misleading indeed.