The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Caomhaoin]

I wonder was it toxic masculinity when the going got tough when the Wehrmacht rolled in and had to be resisted, or at Flodden, Culloden or Ypres? Glyndwr, The Montrose, Prince Lazar, Harold Godwinson? Naw, it was fight and die so that others, principally the fairer sex, didn't have to.

Yeah but that was ages ago, right?

I don't know anyone who slaps his wife around, kidnaps and murders women or any other immoral, despicable sociopathic or psychopathic behaviour, but these people have always and will always exist. Blaming this behaviour on the natural phenomenon of 'masculinity' (all the while ignoring Muslim grooming gangs etc) is one of the worst, most egregious excesses of the postmodern lunatics. Disgusting is usually hyperbole, but it is understatement in this case.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Allow women to legally carry pepper spray or tasers. That's how you make a cunt think twice.

Showing your vast knowledge of the most common contexts in which violence against women occurs there. Wives and girlfriends should keep pepper spray or a taser in their pocket while cooking? Or under the pillow? Is that it? Ah sure, let's just get back to talking about how the women protesting in Ireland after the Everard murder were all hairy ugly wans who would never be at risk of assault because no man would look twice at them; proper daycently raised man talk like! 

My God you talk some shite. He was trying to say that carrying pepper spray may act as an equaliser if they come across a bad situation. As usual you took a fair point, ignored it, and started rambling anyway.

Stupid question, but did you even glance at the article Kev was purportedly responding to? That was where the ignoring of a fair point happened, fyi.

[Caomhaoin]

My main point was the stupidity of blaming anything on masculinity or any other naturally occurring, necessary phenomena and not on the real causes. Nobody excusing these behaviours, but these fanatics and lunatics have less of an answer than the title to a fucking meaningless college thesis with no basis in reality.

Let's all take oestrogen and grow fannies if you want to ride that bullshit.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I wonder was it toxic masculinity when the going got tough when the Wehrmacht rolled in and had to be resisted, or at Flodden, Culloden or Ypres? Glyndwr, The Montrose, Prince Lazar, Harold Godwinson? Naw, it was fight and die so that others, principally the fairer sex, didn't have to.

The rapes of German women by Red Army soldiers moving through the country at the end of world war II, the rape of Vietnamese women by American soldiers, the rape of Korean women by American and Japanese soldiers; they're examples of toxic masculinity, especially since they were committed with a sense of impunity, just like the sense of impunity that's accompanied the shameful garbage that's been uttered here, among adult men, recently. Scarlet for yer mas, so to speak.

[Kunt 4 Life]

Anyone reading this thread would think metalers are all sexist, racist bastards.

[Blackout]

Anyone reading this thread would think metalers are all sexist, racist bastards.

There's only one poster who thinks that. He's the type of person who thinks red army soldiers raping women = all men are rapists.

[Caomhaoin]

I wonder was it toxic masculinity when the going got tough when the Wehrmacht rolled in and had to be resisted, or at Flodden, Culloden or Ypres? Glyndwr, The Montrose, Prince Lazar, Harold Godwinson? Naw, it was fight and die so that others, principally the fairer sex, didn't have to.

The rapes of German women by Red Army soldiers moving through the country at the end of world war II, the rape of Vietnamese women by American soldiers, the rape of Korean women by American and Japanese soldiers; they're examples of toxic masculinity, especially since they were committed with a sense of impunity, just like the sense of impunity that's accompanied the shameful garbage that's been uttered here, among adult men, recently. Scarlet for yer mas, so to speak.

You don't answer the question, obviously. Are plunder (an ugly German word adapted into English and rapine examples of toxic masculinity? I don't believe such a thing exists, but say for instance that I did, and not despicable behaviour of conquering soldiers, which wasn't always considered so, and in some places it still isn't. What exactly is the solution, bar stock answers of no more wars? I know two guys who fought in the Kosovo conflict in the late 90s and both are profoundly and permanently fucked up individuals as a result. Perhaps men being put in a mentally disintegrating situation like modern warfare is more to blame than their testosterone levels.

And for you to call others views 'shameful' is Brent-esque.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Anyone reading this thread would think metalers are all sexist, racist bastards.

There's only one poster who thinks that. He's the type of person who thinks red army soldiers raping women = all men are rapists.

Man who speaks exclusively in sweeping statements erroneously accuses another of making a sweeping statement.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You don't answer the question, obviously. Are plunder (an ugly German word adapted into English and rapine examples of toxic masculinity? I don't believe such a thing exists, but say for instance that I did, and not despicable behaviour of conquering soldiers, which wasn't always considered so, and in some places it still isn't. What exactly is the solution, bar stock answers of no more wars?

Wasn't proposing a solution, just presenting a war context example of what could be considered toxic masculinity, since your tired attempt to use war as a counter-argument was so off target.

[Caomhaoin]

Off-target, yeah?

You are implying that rapine and plunder are toxic but killing the enemy is benign? That's what I'd garner from you're non-answer to my question and 'yeah but...' rebuttal. It's confusing and frustrating dealing with you.

Well, if I was Russian after being brutalised for 3 years by the blond beast, god knows what the fuck I'd be, or anyone else would be capable of.  Read David Ervine's book, and what he was on his way to do after Bloody Friday.

Thirst for revenge isn't a singularly male trait, and I suggest you refresh your knowledge and understanding of history, and without your post modern lens.

And if you aren't proposing a solution (apart from puberty blockers and pretending men are women), have you considered that it's dearth may suggest that perhaps the profoundly disrespectful and ignorant theory of Toxic Masculinity is bullshit?

[Blackout]

Anyone reading this thread would think metalers are all sexist, racist bastards.

There's only one poster who thinks that. He's the type of person who thinks red army soldiers raping women = all men are rapists.

Man who speaks exclusively in sweeping statements erroneously accuses another of making a sweeping statement.

You really are pathetic mate.

[Caomhaoin]

Less of the ad-hominems now.

[hellfire]

Allow women to legally carry pepper spray or tasers. That's how you make a cunt think twice.

Showing your vast knowledge of the most common contexts in which violence against women occurs there. Wives and girlfriends should keep pepper spray or a taser in their pocket while cooking? Or under the pillow? Is that it? Ah sure, let's just get back to talking about how the women protesting in Ireland after the Everard murder were all hairy ugly wans who would never be at risk of assault because no man would look twice at them; proper daycently raised man talk like! 

My God you talk some shite. He was trying to say that carrying pepper spray may act as an equaliser if they come across a bad situation. As usual you took a fair point, ignored it, and started rambling anyway.

Stupid question, but did you even glance at the article Kev was purportedly responding to? That was where the ignoring of a fair point happened, fyi.

I included the quote you objected to

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Off-target, yeah?

Off-target, because you answered your own question in your own post. Was it (per se) toxic masculinity? No, it was fight and/or die. Were there instances of what would be termed toxic masculinity involved? Well, yeah. Hitler's entire project was based on a "toxic" vision of masculinity, something which is actually highlighted by the "blond beast" term you use, since Nietzsche employed it laden with irony, but his sister sold it on to the Führer at face value. And there were plenty of elements of toxic masculinity among the allies too; the Red Army already mentioned; the fallout among shell-shocked US and UK (and other) troops, never taken care of, never given proper treatment, expected to just grin and bear it, that masculine expectation was also literally "toxic", in the sense that it led to an epidemic of psychological problems.

I don't go in wholesale for the toxic masculinity shtick at all, otherwise I'd have to burn half the books I own, but I do recognize pettiness and, yes, rancor when I see and read it, and I find some of it shameful, as in I don't know how the person expressing it isn't ashamed to do so. Adult men dismissively coming out with stuff like "those women are too ugly to ever have been the target of sexual harassment" - you say it's "Brent-esque" of me to call that shameful? Well, that's where I would say a shpade is simply being called a shpade.

[Caomhaoin]

Some fair enough observations there (at last!).

'Toxic behaviour' might get fewer backs up and fewer sad cases arguing the toss on the internet, and Bloody Alice, Mary Tudor and those horrible bitches on the guard towers at sobibor might not have their legacies sullied.

Globally speaking, this kind of finger pointing and collective shaming and persecution is only allowed against one group and it is 'haram' to apply similar treatment to other groups.

I know you'll have little time for Vox here in Spain (they have some profoundly laughable stances), but they suggested equalising the gender violence laws to be applicable to both genders, without detriment to the current protections already afforded to women.

You can imagine the reaction.

Why is that?!