The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Nope, the race thing was part of the discussion long before I joined in. And what I said about the race angle response was this:

You can't actually draw any real meaningful conclusions from such low numbers, but looking at things with a hot head you can end up at, "white criminals only get shot when they have guns, this black guy got shot even though he only had a knife."

for anyone deciding to ignore what he'd done, there is a precedent there for saying, "a criminal in Ireland armed with a knife should not expect to be shot dead." From there, it's a small step for a human brain to explain it on some superficial detail, such as skin colour.

Seeing that you are a reader, I  know  it's not beyond you to understand that in both of these instances it's a case of thinking like someone else, the obvious implication of which is that it's not what I personally think, otherwise I'd just state it.

[Emphyrio]

Your first quote is very wishy-washy.
Your second, pure speculation.
Your third is irrelevant to the whole thing.

As Pedro had to do, Point 1 that you highlighted earlier is all anyone was really talking about. You were the one going off on a tangent for Point 2. For someone who didn't start the race angle, you sure ran with it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

What I ran with was all the pure speculation other people were bringing to the discussion [edit - bringing to the discussion as fact, being the key point]; previous convictions, hammered his girlfriend in the face, took hours to try to disarm him, etc.. I didn't bring any of that unconfirmed social media sourced stuff to the discussion, but I did call it out, after the fact, for what it was. If you lost track of the chronology of things, that's on you too.

[Emphyrio]

My only source of information were a couple of news articles. I can make up my mind fairly quickly and I don't have the inclination to trawl for loads of information. There are actually more fun things to do with my time. Until proven otherwise, I'm happy to go along with the way the guards recount of the incident. And I'd bet I won't be wrong.

The only other material I saw was that clip of the brother's speech, which only furthers my belief that the guards were right.

[Emphyrio]

Anyway, we've been here before. There are more fun things to be at for the evening.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I am also going along with the guards' account. And then there is the discussion here, which has involved things not mentioned at all, at least not so far, in the guards' account. Two separate things; the guards' account of the event, and the discussion here about the event. It is possible to accept the guards' account and at the same time disagree, with someone who also accepts the guards' account, about something which isn't mentioned in the guards' account, which they - not I - have brought up. You jumping into the middle of it and blaming me for discussing things I didn't bring up, well, there ain't much I can do about that now is there, and it's a pretty bad faith approach tbh.

Generally speaking, it is useful to be able to make these kinds of analyses.

[Emphyrio]

You're well within your rights to question some of the hearsay things that have been mentioned. However, and you do it regularly, you run with dismissing those points and completely lose sight of the initial argument.

In short, most, including me, were only discussing Point 1.

[Pedrito]

These kids and their subculture is out of control. The Drill rap image, the machismo, the posing with machetes, there's something really not right about it all. We can dismiss it as just youth gone wild but it's gone way beyond that nowadays. Why did that lad feel like he can have a standoff with the Garda for 90 mins, why are his friends and family outside Blanchardstown station talking up all sorts of BLM defund the police nonsense, talking about terminating Feds and all sorts of pie in the sky nonsense. There doesn't seem to be any proper guidance or education being given to them, just this constant victim narrative that has poisoned them completely against the local native population. Some of the stuff I'm watching today and yesterday is shocking..Irish people in their own streets being called white bastards etc etc, people being attacked just for being white..madness. All in a country that was exporting millions of its own all around the world until very recently.

We have had 6 fatal shootings by Gardaí since 1998. In that time 16 Gardaí have been killed on duty. The idea that our Gardaí would take a life without considering every other option is a complete fanrication and borne out by those numbers. 6 in 22 fucking years!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-involved-in-six-fatal-shootings-in-the-line-of-duty-since-1998-39919572.html

Anyone who is taking this shooting and twisting it into some anti-black narrative is guilty of the highest form of race baiting and should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. It is feeding a false narrative, with absolutely no basis in fact and it is being pushed by the same mé-féiners who ride the coattails of every controversy in our country to keep themselves in the public eye and keep their bank balances ticking over. No surprise oul useless Labour party hasbeens like Brendan Howlin were the first out of the turnstiles..a party that has changed its spots at every possible opportunity over the decades to keep themselves in their fancy middle class neighbourhoods. The Greens the same. McEntee, The mayor of Dublin, they should all be resigning for their stances in the last few days, painting a completely false picture of events based on everything but facts.

And Gran Torinos and these arseholes aside, why should normal, decent minded people be pushing back on this? Because it was only a matter of time with the culture these kids have bought into that this would happen and we are going to start seeing far more of it now. The Gardaí, for once though(and I'm far from a fan) deserve the benefit of the doubt and our respect for the above mentioned statistic. The idea that they chose this course of action for any other reason than they believed the guy was a risk to others is erroneous and I'd be extremely confident it will be shown to be that way in the coming investigation.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You're well within your rights to question some of the hearsay things that have been mentioned. However, and you do it regularly, you run with dismissing those points and completely lose sight of the initial argument.

In short, most, including me, were only discussing Point 1.

But, as has been said, with respect to point 1, for the moment at least, there's nothing much to discuss! If a guard genuinely thought there was immanent danger, then he acted according to his training. Until something indicates otherwise, then that's what happened. That doesn't prevent understanding why African immigrant community people may tend to see it differently, or wondering why some people scoff at the speculation that he may have had mental issues yet swallow the equally speculative suggestion that he had 27 or 39 or however many previous convictions. Right?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Where are you getting the idea of this 90 minute stand-off from?? Any report I've read has said guards called at noon, guy shot at 12:35.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That Independent article Pedro linked above recalls that there was public outcry over the gardai shooting of McCarthy in 2000. He was armed with and fired several shots from his gun, and there was a public outcry. But apparently, according to most of you posting here, it's incomprehensible that there be a public outcry over this latest one where the guy only had a knife...? Have a think about that.

And, yes, I can say that and still, personally, decide to give the gardai absolute benefit of the doubt that they did what they thought was the right thing to do...since apparently all hypotheticals have to be spelled out in-triplicate.

[lifeeternal]

That Independent article Pedro linked above recalls that there was public outcry over the gardai shooting of McCarthy in 2000. He was armed with and fired several shots from his gun, and there was a public outcry. But apparently, according to most of you posting here, it's incomprehensible that there be a public outcry over this latest one where the guy only had a knife...? Have a think about that.

And, yes, I can say that and still, personally, decide to give the gardai absolute benefit of the doubt that they did what they thought was the right thing to do...since apparently all hypotheticals have to be spelled out in-triplicate.

The public outcry is that it is being framed as a cop kills black thing, not guard shots knife welding person thing.

[Nazgûl]

I'm not really on social media anymore, nor was I being sent any videos of the incident or the protests surrounding it (aside from seeing whatever The Times had up of the BLM stuff)...so what I'm interested to know is what's the story with mentions here of regular people being called "white bastards" on the street and being attacked!? Is there proof of this and if so what the fuck is going on up in Dublin?

I did watch a video somebody posted here of a load of scaldy types outside a petrol station brawling. But to me I couldn't see how that correlated with the protests going on in town. Is this another case like in then U.S. where scumbags are getting involved in wrecking the place for the sake of it.

[Trev]

These kids and their subculture is out of control. The Drill rap image, the machismo, the posing with machetes, there's something really not right about it all.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]