Ive always just played as a bit of a hobby, but want to start looking at put together a small set up, mostly just for recording basic demos(2 or 3 guitar/bass tracks and maybe programmed drums).
What would people recommend for something cheap enough and simple to use? I've literally zero experience at this stuff, so something that you can just plug and play would suit me to start off, and can add fancy extras once I get more used to it
You can get Reaper for free. Its a DAW or recording program. And youll need an audio interface. Pretty much any cheapish 2 channel interface would do what you want. These are great https://www.thomann.de/ie/focusrite_scarlett_solo_2nd_gen.htm
But anything in the 50 - 100 euro range with two inputs will do essentially the same thing at the same quality. You can just plug the guitar into it and use software effects and amp sims. Loads of free ones of those.
Or you can pick up a Shure SM57 microphone if you want to play through a real amp and record it that way. There are cheaper mics available but thats the most commonly used mic worldwide. and its only 100 quid roughly. Heres a cheaper alternative a lot of people like https://www.thomann.de/ie/the_tbone_mb75.htm its sort of a clone of the 57 but its not an exact copy.
Other than that youll want a decent pair of headphones. no need to go crazy but 10 euro tesco own brand wont really cut it for any real recording.
Loads of resources on youtube for learning the basics too.
If you have your instruments / amps / pedals already ready to go there's a few ways about it. The absolute most cheap and cheerful would be to pick up a cheap interface or USB mixer, a DI, a Mic, and Monitors if you don't have some useable speakers. Download Reaper as a DAW (it's free). Find some free/cheap drum software online (there's recs in the main thread).
If it's just for home demoing and you're keeping it cheap, there's some handy options on Thomann. You could pick up this absurdly cheap interface (https://m.thomann.de/ie/behringer_u_phoria_umc22.htm) or this slightly better interface (https://m.thomann.de/ie/behringer_u_phoria_umc204hd.htm?o=46&search=1543416240) for cheap, fire this mic (https://m.thomann.de/ie/the_tbone_mb75.htm) in front of your amp, adjust to your preference and track right into reaper. For your bass fire This DI (https://m.thomann.de/ie/millenium_die_dibox_passiv.htm) in at the end of your chain but before your amp, or if your amp has a DI out built in even better, and on into the interface to record. No monitors? Pick up these or similar (https://m.thomann.de/ie/swissonic_mm_3.htm?o=1&search=1543417073) to get you off the ground. Install a few drivers for the interface and you're ready to go with zero issues.
You could always stick the guitar through the DI if you can't record an amp at volume at home too, and use amp sims online, guitar rig or the like. I don't do that so someone else might have better recommendations there. I recently recommended my brother to get a similar set up to what's listed above for home recording but replaced the interface with this usb mixer (https://m.thomann.de/ie/behringer_xenyx_q802_usb.htm) purely because he'll be recording 3-4 keyboards in one take or running a few instruments at once. Handy piece of kit but doesn't track the channels separately through the USB, rather out to one stereo channel.
I have recorded albums on worse than this but this is the cheapest/handiest combo I could put together this quick. Everything is tame enough and could be replaced down the line but no matter what way you put these together, you'd still have to fill the order up with whatever cables you need to get to €200 on Thomann.
@Liamish - great minds think alike and all that.
With the new laptop I'd to go through all this shit again last weekend.
I also use Reaper as my DAW. FREE
I downloaded this.... https://www.powerdrumkit.com/ which seems similar enough to EZ Drummer etc except it's FREE!!
I also got Guitar Rig 5 PLAYER. A more limited version of the regular guitar rig but again, it's FREE.
I'll be recording directly (bass/guitars/keys) so won't even be using Guitar Rig as much as I was before, nor will I be mic'ing up cabs etc. Depending on your recording circumstances/needs you may or may not need mic'ing.
As mentioned an interface is defo needed. The Focusrite stuff is great. I've a discontinued one but the drivers were still available online luckily.
Then a pair of decent headphones and/or speakers.
I've gotten to the stage where I'm building my home recording setup now too. Going to splurge on a focusrite 2i2 very shortly. I have good headphones and a good laptop and actually got that same Power Drum Kit for Reaper the other day. Really good for a free VST, and should be perfect for just demos. I'm sure one could find some sample packs on the interwebs and switch them in for something different?
Lads, say I'm trying to get decent quality but rough live recording on the go with as little mics as possible. Is there a certain jack of all trades type of mic that can do it all (drums, vocals, guitars)? Head's spinning with all the reading on cardioid, ribbon, large/small diaphragm and dynamic vs condensers. Good to know that the Thomann brand mics have a good rep.
The Audient iD14 as an interface is stupidly good for its price point. It blows away the focusrite I used to have. The preamps and di and converters on the unit are awesome. JFET input. Can't go wrong with it.
I would definitely consider Audient first -> https://www.thomann.de/ie/audient_id4.htm
I just plug my guitar into the interface DI and use Reaper as my DAW and use TSE as the amp plugin -> https://www.tseaudio.com/home
Cheers lads! Got about €300ish to spend so I'll start going through those recommendations and see what I can knock together, or convince the missus to sort me out for Christmas!
Quote from: Mags on November 28, 2018, 04:14:39 PM
I've gotten to the stage where I'm building my home recording setup now too. Going to splurge on a focusrite 2i2 very shortly. I have good headphones and a good laptop and actually got that same Power Drum Kit for Reaper the other day. Really good for a free VST, and should be perfect for just demos. I'm sure one could find some sample packs on the interwebs and switch them in for something different?
Lads, say I'm trying to get decent quality but rough live recording on the go with as little mics as possible. Is there a certain jack of all trades type of mic that can do it all (drums, vocals, guitars)? Head's spinning with all the reading on cardioid, ribbon, large/small diaphragm and dynamic vs condensers. Good to know that the Thomann brand mics have a good rep.
If you want just one mic to do lots to start with id get an sm57. You can always pick up other mics that are geared to specific needs later but you can get a long way by just slapping a sm57 in front of whatever youre recording.
If you're wanting to be really cheap, just focus on spending 50-100 on a cheap interface. Assuming you already have a somewhat decent computer, you can handle the rest with software. Guitars and bass can be amped with software, drums and synths can all be programmed. There's plent of free stuff which will do the job. Once you've figured out what you're doing, you can focus on things like mics and better interfaces.
If you're getting an interface you might want to make sure it has phantom power to allow you to use condenser mics further down the line.
Get this:
https://www.thomann.de/ie/focusrite_scarlett_solo_2nd_gen.htm
Download (all free):
1. Reaper - https://www.reaper.fm/download.php
2. Ignite Emissary (Amp Simulator) - https://www.kvraudio.com/product/emissary-by-ignite-amps
3. NadIR (Cabinet Simulator) - https://www.kvraudio.com/product/nadir-by-ignite-amps
4. Cabinet Impulse Responses (loaded into NadIR) - https://www.wilkinsonaudio.com/product/gods-cab/?v=d2cb7bbc0d23
5. Drum simulator - https://www.powerdrumkit.com/
6. If you don't own a bass guitar - http://www.yohng.com/software/bass.html
Then just onto YouTube for as many tutorials as you can soak up.
This is all I use for songwriting and recording demos at home. With EQ and compression plugins built into Reaper, you can get stuff more than acceptable for your purposes:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z9p3-G0v5yhBeQUc6xZaUaf1O_ZngQb9
Quote from: liamish on November 28, 2018, 02:59:02 PM
You can get Reaper for free. Its a DAW or recording program. And youll need an audio interface. Pretty much any cheapish 2 channel interface would do what you want. These are great https://www.thomann.de/ie/focusrite_scarlett_solo_2nd_gen.htm
But anything in the 50 - 100 euro range with two inputs will do essentially the same thing at the same quality. You can just plug the guitar into it and use software effects and amp sims. Loads of free ones of those.
Or you can pick up a Shure SM57 microphone if you want to play through a real amp and record it that way. There are cheaper mics available but thats the most commonly used mic worldwide. and its only 100 quid roughly. Heres a cheaper alternative a lot of people like https://www.thomann.de/ie/the_tbone_mb75.htm its sort of a clone of the 57 but its not an exact copy.
Other than that youll want a decent pair of headphones. no need to go crazy but 10 euro tesco own brand wont really cut it for any real recording.
Loads of resources on youtube for learning the basics too.
Just seconding this post. Reaper is great, Focusrite is great, SM57s are great. As an addition to the Focusrite, theres a great Amp simulator called Bias by a company called Positive Grid that sounds great too.
What's Bias like compared to the other sims? The demos sound great and the tone matching looks interesting, but I've never tried it.
Fruity Loops from about 5 versions ago, Cool Edit Pro (Peter Quistgard), Free VSTs from here there and everywhere, Tascam 2x2 interface which is simple and great, shitty old bass, shitty old mic, casio keyboard, my mind.
I am firmly of the opinion that it isn't any good having the latest and best of anything if you can't be creative with what you do have, first. It is more important to understand what a compressor actually does for example, rather than using the presets on some 300 quid thing. I actually get more enjoyment out of making the best of shit stuff.
Thanks for he suggestions, have the little two channel interface ordered, having a look at reaper and it seems simple enough to get started on, I'll have some super shitty EPs ready in no time
Ordered a fairly cheap woofer for the current set up. Will probably be mainly used for playback, as opposed to mixing, and for making racket in general.
I spotted the Behringer Umc series of interfaces lately when snooping on thomann for helping a friend get started on a setup for podcasting. Crazy cheap and while I haven't heard the interface, the Midas mic pres( if they're the same as the behringer desks) are really decent. I've recorded loads of gigs with them and they sounded good. 100 euro for 4 inputs, 200 euro for 8 mic inputs with an option of another 8 over adat? thats for nothing. Every band should have one! When I started recording ( almost 15 years ago....) the barrier for entry was much much higher.
Been using the MT power drums free alternative to exdrummer lately also other have mentioned on here. Sounds great, has a much more natural snare sound. My only gripe is that the preset grooves are a bit shit. If anyone knows of a free midi groove pack worth getting then do point me in that direction! I record real drums for all my "real" recording projects but when I'm writing at home or demoing shit then I use this software.
Quote from: if6was9 on December 06, 2018, 07:13:13 PM
I spotted the Behringer Umc series of interfaces lately when snooping on thomann for helping a friend get started on a setup for podcasting. Crazy cheap and while I haven't heard the interface, the Midas mic pres( if they're the same as the behringer desks) are really decent. I've recorded loads of gigs with them and they sounded good. 100 euro for 4 inputs, 200 euro for 8 mic inputs with an option of another 8 over adat? thats for nothing. Every band should have one! When I started recording ( almost 15 years ago....) the barrier for entry was much much higher.
Was only chatting about these yesterday. Actually a savage price for that starting out. I have the scarlett 18i8 in the space for recording and love it but considering picking up either an 18i20 and swapping the current one for home use - at the price of the behringer ones i'd nearly just get the 200 quid one for home and adat use with the focusrite as option. 16 years ago meself and astfgyl went in on a tascam tape 4-track and it cost us more!!
Still have her there at the ready for that primitive BM album we are never going to record.
The world truly was our oyster with that thing
Quote from: astfgyl on December 06, 2018, 11:04:35 PM
Still have her there at the ready for that primitive BM album we are never going to record.
The world truly was our oyster with that thing
It comes back to what you said earlier about using the tools you had. We made a fuckton of music on that and learned purely through experience and experimentation what worked best. Great piece of kit at the time to be fair, and even now you could run the outs of a mixer into it and get live recordings with it to play with. Reminds me a bit of that technique glenn fricker was on about with recording the guitar; generally why is sounds better is because it forces you to get the best tone you can outside a DAW, if you have to commit to your choices you'll move through the recording quicker and make more effort to get your own tone - not the technically best tone, but
your own.
:laugh: No, definitely not the best
Lol yeah I got a bit too nostalgic there, it was a fuckin horror. Still though the points stand.
Ah yeah it isn't the size of your pipe and all that...
Sure I bought a new jack today and I felt like I was levelling up because it was a stereo one
I don't do any recording but have started using Amplitube on my MacBook. Sounds fucking great!!! I'm using a Focusrite Scarlett Interface and a PreSonus E66 active monitor. The Mesa Boogie sims on Amplitube are excellent.
For anyone interested in plugins, Waves are having a 50% off sale until the 11th. Use the code TODAY50
http://store.dontcrack.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=61
Any idea what the problems, so to speak, were that made Thergothon and the early Skepticism recordings sound so distant and strange? Is it that they aren't mastered or what? Is it even possible to emulate that sound with modern recording gear?
Just listening to Stormcrowfleet, is this the kind of thing you mean? The drums are quite dampened so they don't ring out, it's all attack, no sustain, and close-mic'd, almost like a 70's disco kit, and then a pile of reverb added afterwards, particularly on the snare. They might even have recorded the cymbals separately to the drums to give it that distance. The keyboards are taking up a tonne of space so there's not much room for the guitar which is very mid-scooped. It's definitely possible to do that sound today, there's nothing about it which is tied to technology.
Cool. Defo going to aim for that sound with Bacterium but our attempts so far haven't hit the mark.
It's almost like an anti-mix, for want of a better term. Where you'd usually expect the mixer to try to provide a bit of depth and have the instruments eq'd to give space to each other so they can all blend nicely together, with that one they've gone for extreme separation with the drums and the keyboard completely killing the guitar when both are playing. There's no depth to the sound aside from the snare which makes it sound so out of place.
Focus on the drum sound, it's the key to it. Everything is completely dead, no high end, no sustain, compressed and piles of reverb on the snare with a long decay. The more I hear it, the more I'd be sure the cymbals were recorded after the drums and they've probably put a high-pass filter on them too to remove much of the low and mid frequencies and, since the drums have no highs, they occupy a different sonic space. With no sustain in the drums, it's leaving a big gap for they keyboards in particular, which are really forward in the mix.
Cool, nice one. I actually had it in my head about the cymbals, or at least the hi hat, being recorded separately because it's so loud in the mix. Thergothon is even more dense and fucked up sounding. I imagine it's just the worst thing to hear for an engineer as it's putting everything in the wrong place but it's great when your ear adapts to it.