I was reading a (Not very Complimentary) piece on this record which turned 10 May gone and am spinning it here this morning for the first time in an age - it's god awful. I think many got carried away with praise because of the records mere existence.
QuoteThe band's original heart and soul were not there, save for a few fleeting moments in songs such as "Superhero," "Separation Anxiety," and "Matador." It's almost as though FAITH NO MORE tried to impersonate their past greatness with a few new, rushed songs without putting any real effort in
I think that may be slightly harsh but just. There's a few more fleeting moments here and there but overall it really feels half baked. The title track for example seems to stop before it gets going. There's a lot of tracks then where the same phrase is repeated over and over, suggesting the lyrics were scrawled on a piece of tissue paper as the tracks were being jammed. Some of them sound like other projects Cast Offs - Cone of Shame? Tomahawk?
I am glad I caught them live whilst possible - the Olympia show was great. I'd love to know what the real beef is between Patton and the band, I do wonder with the Agoraphobia comment from Patton was he taking the piss? He was practically straight back out with Bungle.
Bordin seems to agree
QuoteMy statement on it is that he's gone from being unable to do the shows to clearly being unwilling to do shows with us," he said. "And that's heavy. That's a big difference
It's not the FNM I grew up with, and not the record I expected, but I still stand by it. Apart from Black Friday which is the worst thing they've ever written. Definitely don't love it as much as when it came out but there's plenty of songs I rate on there,including Motherfucker which everyone seemed to hate.
TBH,pains me to say it, it feels like Patton's best days are behind him creatively, I don't know what the fuck he's at lately but there's very little he's done that's in anyway as exciting. I think the "Corpse Flower" record was the last thing of his that was enjoyable to me, and this AVTT/PATTON thing can fuck off. The Bungle thing is beyond a joke now. I'm sure there's plenty money in it for all involved but it's time to either stop or move on rather than piss away their legacy by putting effort into being remembered as a bog standard thrash band.
The FNM I loved disappeared with Jim Martin. Not that he was the driving force, by any stretch, but he, Bill and Roddy usually playing different things all the time, yet making it work, was a glorious sound. KFAD is a good album, but it sounds like a different band, a bog standard band, too much guitar and bass duplicating each other, fuck all Roddy, none of the creative spitefulness which made them amazing up to that point. Still, it's the last decent thing they did. The replacements brought fuck all to the band, really and letting Patton off the leash was a terrible mistake.
Sol Invictus was and is a weak effort, a poor man's AOTY which, itself, was shite.
That's the best comparison, AOTY outtakes etc. I do like some of the tracks on AOTY but it was clear it was over musically then. The replacements did indeed bring nothing to the table.
QuoteMotherfucker which everyone seemed to hate
Awful song, cringeworthy.
I've only listened to it once, on release. Hated it from the get-go, it sounds like a Patton project rather than a band effort.
AOTY is my go to FNM album these days, I don't get the hate for it. The Real Thing and Angel Dust are obviously better albums but I've played them to death over the years, and KFAD just isn't great.
It's leagues below the other Patton FNM albums – just doesn't compete, but at the same time I'm glad it exists. Rise Of The Fall, Black Friday, and From The Dead are probably the worst songs the band ever released but the others are 6s and 7s out of 10 for me, with Matador and Cone of Shame being the real highlights. I agree with PS above, the latter could have been pulled from Tomahawk.
I noticed a real decline in Patton starting with Tomahawk's Oddfellows which is nearly 13 years ago now, and Sol Invictus came 2 years after that. Everything since is completely worthless and that version of Mr Bungle currently doing the rounds is cardinal sin – they should have called themselves "The Raging Wrath of the Easter Bunny", because Bungle it isn't.
There may be some truth to that agoraphobia thing, but I'd say it's also true he used it as the perfect excuse to step away from Faith No More at the time. Money talks, but I can't see it happening again as Patton just doesn't seem to have the interest.
Very happy to have caught them at the Olympia in '09 and Hyde Park in '14, where they I believe it was the debut Motherfucker and Superhero, and as much as I loved the show I thought both of those songs were limp.
KFAD and Angel Dust are my two faves. Also don't get the hate for AOTY - I've a real soft spot for it! Check out this show from the AOTY tour - if they'd played Stripsearch it would have been the greatest gig from any band, of all time.
To clarify I'd have ranked AOTY as their lowest but a decent album by the standard of others. One or two clangers on it and had they left it there it'd have been a fitting end.
That version of Bungle should be done for false advertising. Scott Ian's involvement is another cardinal sin.
Stripsearch, Helpless, Ashes to Ashes, all up in the echelons of the best songs FNM ever wrote and recorded.
Quote from: Brodent on October 20, 2025, 11:08:11 AMRise Of The Fall,
Ah I like this song, feels like a reall callback to the Mosely era.
Yeah with Tomahawk/the Patton decline generally I'd go back a little further too the previous self titled album, which is absolute shit. Shame, as the first 2 Tomahawk records are absolutely excellent, and that show in the Ambassador years back was too. Still, glad Denison is back in the Jesus Lizard now at least.
The "agoraphobia" thing..I thought the understanding was that there was also a drink problem involved?Don't ask me to find it but there was an interview where he said as much, or that it was a contributing factor at least.
I definitely remember drink and possibly medication being mentioned. There could be some truth there who's to know but his actions after the 75 FNM shows were cancelled say otherwise.
A band i adored for the longest time , saw them 4 times in the 90s and all fantastic. Album of the year for me was a low point, stuck with it for far too long trying to like it but I really don't like it at all, I thought Sol Invictus was better but I dont go back to it now. For me Introduce yourself is my go to album now id even prefer it to the Real thing. Angel Dust of course is the pinnacle.
Same! Introduce Yourself is now my go to - but I do reckon it's because I played everything else to death and overexposure to some of the singles. Don't think I need to hear TRT ever again.
Same here, Introduce Yourself is the one I listen to the most, still can listen to any of the first four and love the experience, though. Thankfully I never overdid it with any of them :laugh: :abbath:
FNM are one of those few bands where I'd blind purchase anything they release, regardless of quality. Or at least, I would have...up until Sol Invictus. I was pleasantly surprised at first as the expectations weren't exactly high, but it's just a spectacular non-event and I can't remember the last time I listened to it. Have no immediate desire to revist it either.
The Real Thing is my current fave and was my first album of theirs back then, that guitar tone is really under appreciated, clear and heavy (the opening of Surprise..!).
Sol Invictus I thought sounded like demo ideas rushed out across an album. I had a copy when it came out , then sold it.
Another vote for Introduce Yourself. Don't like anything after Angel Dust bar a track or two. I think letting Patton off the leash ruined the band.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 20, 2025, 11:39:00 AMStripsearch, Helpless, Ashes to Ashes, all up in the echelons of the best songs FNM ever wrote and recorded.
Yup, I'd add Last Cup of Sorrow too.
I really liked Sol Invictus when it came out, but thinking about it I don't think I've listened to it since, probably just enjoyed the fact that it was new FNM more than the album itself
KFAD is always by go to
Listened to AOTY this morning again. For people who dropped off after Jim Martin's departure, fair enough. But if you like KFAD but not AOTY then... I don't understand how your ears work :laugh:
Ah no come on. Two vastly different records. KFAD is much further reaching - And Trey Spruance's guitar work is much more versatile. I do like Jon Hudson but it's on the Textbook side. Ashes to Ashes is glorious for example but Last Cup of Sorrow deadly dull, never rated that track.
As good as some of the stuff is on AOTY there was for the first time a feeling the band had checked out. Some will argue that KFAD is bloated - I personally don't, I'd agree it's not without flaws but there's great energy on it, whereas AOTY plods here and there.
See I'd say the opposite about KFAD, it sounds incredibly flat to me, dead and lifeless. As though it was stitched together on a computer out of disparate bits and bobs. AOTY sounds more raw and live to me.
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on October 20, 2025, 03:31:12 PMAh no come on. Two vastly different records. KFAD is much further reaching - And Trey Spruance's guitar work is much more versatile. I do like Jon Hudson but it's on the Textbook side. Ashes to Ashes is glorious for example but Last Cup of Sorrow deadly dull, never rated that track.
As good as some of the stuff is on AOTY there was for the first time a feeling the band had checked out. Some will argue that KFAD is bloated - I personally don't, I'd agree it's not without flaws but there's great energy on it, whereas AOTY plods here and there.
"Vastly" is doing a lot of work there. I'm obviously not saying they're the same... I just don't really get what about AOTY a fan of KFAD would dislike. To my ears, everything on AOTY flows logically from one or other of the previous phases of FNM. I was genuinely surprised when I started hearing it was panned by lots of folk. Ah sure, different strokes: all the more FNM for me to enjoy! :laugh:
That unhinged quality you got on Jizzlobber is still prevalent on King For A Day, Cuckoo for Caca, Ugly in the Morning etc, the diversions into Lounge Jazz, it's all over the place the way you'd want it. AOTY is the PG version, too many safe tracks. Look we'll scrap all day
The correct ranking is ;)
Angel Dust 10/10
The Real Thing 9/10
King for a Day 8/10
Introduce yourself 7.5/10
Album of the year 7/10
We care a lot 6/10
Sol Invictus 3/10
The Real Thing
Angel Dust
Album Of The Year
King For A Day
We Care A Lot
Sol Invictus - it's just a mish mash of half baked ideas.
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on October 20, 2025, 04:54:00 PMThe correct ranking is ;)
Angel Dust 9/10
The Real Thing 9/10
Album Of The Year 7/10
King For A Day 5/10
Sol Invictus 3/10
Introduce Yourself 2/10
We Care A Lot 1/10
Fixed that for you. ;)
Sandwich dropped ???
Some mad rankings there. Introduce yourself 2/10 - stick that in the controversial opinions pile
It's the Baloff Effect - Mosley's appalling wailing make both of those albums unlistenable. TBH I thought I was being generous giving IY 2/10, it only got that because WCAL is even worse.
Hes fine really on revisiting, the songs are excellent, I never really bothered with Chuck era til after the split bar the Patton versions of the Crab song , as the worm turns etc bit so much good stuff
Introduce Yourself was the first FNM record I got so always liked Chuck. Thought Patton was sound in that he never had any issue doing any of that stuff. Didn't they do a couple of sets with Mosley before he died? There's photos of him and Patton backstage
Actually while we're here - an excellent book appeared a few years back written by an Irish lad called Small Victories it's highly recommended
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on October 21, 2025, 08:16:30 PMActually while we're here - an excellent book appeared a few years back written by an Irish lad called Small Victories it's absolutely excellent - highly recommended
Very decent book alright
Onto the list it goes.
Yeah, I'd be tempted by that. Haven't read a music biography type book in absolutely years.
The launch was in Dublin, Mike Bordin was there - Harte connected with himself Bottom and Gould which says it all.
" When I started the book in April 2017, the first email I received said, "I have noticed talk about you taking on our story in a book. I wanted to reach out and offer my help in any way you'd deem useful. Who knows what that would be, or where it would lead?" That mail was from Mike Bordin, and it led us here, to Dublin, and to this book. Thanks Mike for all your help and for being here tonight."
Mike Bordin said: "This is not a book; this is the book. My take on it is this, if there is going to be a book made and a book we can trust, then this is going to be the book. We are not going to do this again, this is the book."
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on October 21, 2025, 08:16:30 PMActually while we're here - an excellent book appeared a few years back written by an Irish lad called Small Victories it's highly recommended
Aidy setup one of the first ever FNM fansites in the early days of the internet. He's been working high up in UEFA of all places, for must be over twenty years now.
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on October 21, 2025, 09:59:22 PMThe launch was in Dublin, Mike Bordin was there - Harte connected with himself Bottom and Gould which says it all.
" When I started the book in April 2017, the first email I received said, "I have noticed talk about you taking on our story in a book. I wanted to reach out and offer my help in any way you'd deem useful. Who knows what that would be, or where it would lead?" That mail was from Mike Bordin, and it led us here, to Dublin, and to this book. Thanks Mike for all your help and for being here tonight."
Mike Bordin said: "This is not a book; this is the book. My take on it is this, if there is going to be a book made and a book we can trust, then this is going to be the book. We are not going to do this again, this is the book."
Class, will defo pick it up.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on October 20, 2025, 09:53:59 AMIt's not the FNM I grew up with, and not the record I expected, but I still stand by it. Apart from Black Friday which is the worst thing they've ever written. Definitely don't love it as much as when it came out but there's plenty of songs I rate on there,including Motherfucker which everyone seemed to hate.
TBH,pains me to say it, it feels like Patton's best days are behind him creatively, I don't know what the fuck he's at lately but there's very little he's done that's in anyway as exciting. I think the "Corpse Flower" record was the last thing of his that was enjoyable to me, and this AVTT/PATTON thing can fuck off. The Bungle thing is beyond a joke now. I'm sure there's plenty money in it for all involved but it's time to either stop or move on rather than piss away their legacy by putting effort into being remembered as a bog standard thrash band.
I agree with all this, motherfucker pops into my head regular, im pretty sure jt was first release and might have even gone up on something like soundcloud or just a youtube lyric video or something
Corpse flower isnt old, and I do still dig anytime he gets together with what would be my favourite project of his, Tomahawk.
Listening to We Care a Lot for the first time in years, Mosleys vocals are absolute shit. Would have been worth just rerecording it with Patton
I actually enjoy Sol Invictus for what it is;a band regrouping and writing music they want to play instead of trying to recapture 'their youth'.
There's a few decent songs on the album. Matador and Cone of shame are songs I return to from time to time.
I grew to appreciate Moseley's vocals but they're still awful compared to Patton.
As for Patton, I haven't liked anything he's done in years (with the exception of the Bungle album). That last thing he did was godawful.
That's pretty much it for me as well. It's them at that age, no them trying to recreate the band they were 25 years before.
Highly recommend the book as well, really good stuff.It's interesting to note that Patton was the only one who didn't contribute.
Regarding Album of the Year
If a few of the songs BPMs were a bit faster, they'd be perfect
They'd be in Angel Dust good
Jizzlobber is one of their best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhD_7nWw7Ww&list=RDfhD_7nWw7Ww&start_radio=1
Ferocious
Album Of The Year sounded a lot better to me after Sol Invictus came out is about all I have to say about Sol Invictus.
Maybe it'll click in a few years
Was it Jizzlobber that Enslaved did a cover of?
Yip, I'd forgotten Enslaved did a cover of Jizzlobber.
Quote from: OpenSores on October 24, 2025, 01:44:06 PMYip, I'd forgotten Enslaved did a cover of Jizzlobber.
I never knew this at all
I thought I had it as a bonus track on one of the albums but apparently not.