Nothing new that bands sometimes reissue albums with different tracklists - whether the existing tracks are reordered, alternate takes/mixes of tracks are used, or tracks are added, removed or switched out for others.
The discussion of Invaders on The Number Of The Beast, and the album's running order in another thread reminded me of the debate about Total Eclipse: should it have been included instead of Gangland or inserted into the tracklist as it was on the 1998 remastered CD (no to both as far as I'm concerned, it's not a great song)?
If I was forced to change it I'd ditch 22 Acacia Avenue as the whole Charlotte The Harlot thing is cringeworthy, but I'm happy with the album as it is, I grew up with those songs in that order. But for the craic I had a go at reordering them in another way that flowed well, stuck it below. If I absolutely had to include Total Eclipse I'd slip it in between Invaders and Run To The Hills.
Just wondering whether there were any examples of albums you'd alter in a similar way, ditch tracks that don't belong or take from the overall impact of the whole, or add glaring omissions from B-sides, EPs, etc.? Or even breaking filler-heavy double albums, or 'twin' albums like Load/Reload or the Use Your Illusions down into better quality single albums?
1. The Number Of The Beast
2. Gangland
3. The Prisoner
4. Children Of The Damned
5. Invaders
6. Run To The Hills
7. 22 Acacia Avenue
8. Hallowed Be My Name
Seeing as I was the one pissing meself about Invaders, that has to go :laugh:
I got into Maiden around the release of those 1998 remasters, so I've never known TNotB without Total Eclipse. And it's a better song than at least three from the album (Invaders, 22, Gangland, probably Run To The Hills as well, never really liked that song).
Am also a fan of the title track kicking off side two.
I'd stick TE in between CotD and 22 - poor pacing have two six minute plus songs sitting next to each other.
I see there was a recent reissue of TNOTB with Total Eclipse replacing Gangland altogether, vinyl I presume. I just never took to the song.
Same with Sanctuary, never liked it and inserting it into the '98 reissue of the debut really grated. See also: Killers and Twilight Zone, though that's a decent song at least.
I'm having a wee moment here - how many of those '98 reissues have alternate tracklists, because most of my knowledge of Maiden comes from them and I'm realising that my youth was basically a lie :laugh:
I know Powerslave and SSoaSS are correct due to having them on tape, and I bought an ancient Canadian CD pressing of Somewhere In Time from a lad at school, so is it just the fist three they dicked with?
22 Acacia Avenue is a great song, but no doubt those tabloid lyrics (i.e. page 3 mixed with conservative moralizing) could have done with (no pun intended) a quick once over.
Tis a good topic! If we're talking strictly keeping all the songs but just rearranging the order, I know we've done the Black album on here before, opening with Sad But True.
Am thinking of the latest Primordial album - if you drop the weakest song from the second half and move the Victory Has 1000 Fathers song to second last, then this album works much better.
Quote from: Ducky on April 06, 2025, 03:39:14 PMI'm having a wee moment here - how many of those '98 reissues have alternate tracklists, because most of my knowledge of Maiden comes from them and I'm realising that my youth was basically a lie :laugh:
I know Powerslave and SSoaSS are correct due to having them on tape, and I bought an ancient Canadian CD pressing of Somewhere In Time from a lad at school, so is it just the fist three they dicked with?
Sanctuary, Twilight Zone and Total Eclipse weren't on the original releases of the first three - although some Japanese and U.S. releases featured them. The coda to Phantom Of The Opera is omitted on the '98 reissue I think. Powerslave (the song) has the intro tacked onto the end of the previous track. Not sure about POM, SIT and SSOASS, I think they're as they were. A track on either No Prayer or FOTD has an extra verse, might be Mother Russia. I think there are a couple of other bits but that's all I can think of at the moment.
Didn't realise there was so many differences! I've only ever had the 98 cds so might try tracking down a few of the originals
The 2015 remasters are reset to the original set ups, plus they sound great. The 1995 versions have the original albums on disc one, B-sides and extra songs on a bonus disc.
Quote from: Carnage on April 06, 2025, 05:26:49 PMThe 2015 remasters are reset to the original set ups, plus they sound great. The 1995 versions have the original albums on disc one, B-sides and extra songs on a bonus disc.
ya the cds are superb..especially the first album..having grown up with the 98 remasters the 98 version is a lie
Great topic. Metallica spring to mind straight away. I was listening to Justice last week and it's quite bloated. Removing One would make it a bit leaner. The album would still contain 8 tracks, and would be just under an hour in length.
(Anesthesia) - Pulling Teeth could be removed from Kill 'Em All. It's a bit pointless, and ruins the flow of the album. Sorry Cliff.
100% agree on Anesthesia, I could never fathom why it was included. Leave the solo tracks to the jazz wankers.
Ah here, ye're mad.
I love Kill 'Em All, but Anesthesia shouldn't have been released. It's not even good enough to be a B-side.
Always skip it these days, it'd be grand as a live piece but no need to be on the album. Might have been interesting if James and Kirk were involved and they made it into a full instrumental piece
Ah, it's grand as it is with severely limited involvement from the rest of those cunts. It'd have been shit if they turned down the bass on it.
While it wouldn't have made the album that much better the decision by Judas Priest not to include Thunder Road on Ram It Down and put the Johnny B. Goode cover on instead is a bit of a mindfuck still.
Quote from: Maggot Colony on April 07, 2025, 03:30:49 PMRemoving One would make it a bit leaner.
Ah come on. Frayed Ends, To Live Is To Die and Eye Of The Beholder all have more filler material in them. There's aspects of all 3 songs that weren't fully fleshed out. One is a superb tune.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on April 08, 2025, 08:23:46 PMWhile it wouldn't have made the album that much better the decision by Judas Priest not to include Thunder Road on Ram It Down and put the Johnny B. Goode cover on instead is a bit of a mindfuck still.
Why is it not even on the Ram it Down reissues :laugh:
Point of fckn entry like
Quote from: The Great Cull on April 08, 2025, 09:13:47 PMQuote from: Maggot Colony on April 07, 2025, 03:30:49 PMRemoving One would make it a bit leaner.
Ah come on. Frayed Ends, To Live Is To Die and Eye Of The Beholder all have more filler material in them. There's aspects of all 3 songs that weren't fully fleshed out. One is a superb tune.
Justice is a weird album. The songs are mostly savage but it's like they were trying to complicate the song structures to show off their chops and ended up confusing things with loads of little cul de sacs. The meat of the songs is great but the choppy stop start bits are annoying.
Quote from: londonleatherboy on April 08, 2025, 09:20:38 PMQuote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on April 08, 2025, 08:23:46 PMWhile it wouldn't have made the album that much better the decision by Judas Priest not to include Thunder Road on Ram It Down and put the Johnny B. Goode cover on instead is a bit of a mindfuck still.
Why is it not even on the Ram it Down reissues :laugh:
Point of fckn entry like
The bonustracks on those re-issues are all over the shop.
Made no fucking sense at all.
Quote from: The Great Cull on April 08, 2025, 09:13:47 PMQuote from: Maggot Colony on April 07, 2025, 03:30:49 PMRemoving One would make it a bit leaner.
Ah come on. Frayed Ends, To Live Is To Die and Eye Of The Beholder all have more filler material in them. There's aspects of all 3 songs that weren't fully fleshed out. One is a superb tune.
I think my hatred of the One video is affecting my decision. :laugh: It was always fecking on MTV and put me off the song.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 08, 2025, 11:08:57 PMQuote from: The Great Cull on April 08, 2025, 09:13:47 PMQuote from: Maggot Colony on April 07, 2025, 03:30:49 PMRemoving One would make it a bit leaner.
Ah come on. Frayed Ends, To Live Is To Die and Eye Of The Beholder all have more filler material in them. There's aspects of all 3 songs that weren't fully fleshed out. One is a superb tune.
Justice is a weird album. The songs are mostly savage but it's like they were trying to complicate the song structures to show off their chops and ended up confusing things with loads of little cul de sacs. The meat of the songs is great but the choppy stop start bits are annoying.
You've hit the nail on the head. A lot of the songs are too meandering, making the album feel bloated. It's just over 10 minutes longer than Puppets, but feels like a bit of a slog in comparison.
I threw on Countdown To Extinction on the drive to work today and there's an album that could be whittled down to the following:
- Skin O My Teeth
- Symphony Of Destruction
- Architecture Of Aggression
- Countdown To Extinction
- Ashes In Your Mouth
At a push This Was My Life...
I don't think too many people would be looking for Captive Honour or Psychotron in any setlists.
All I'd have from it would be:
Skin O' My Teeth
Symphony Of Destruction
Foreclosure Of A Dream
Ashes In Your Mouth
I've never understood the reverence for that album or Youthanasia, blatant commercial cash grabs both. A mini-album's worth of decent songs between them. Add A Tout Le Monde, Blood Of Heroes and Victory to thise four and there you are.
Youthanasia is Mustaine's dark masterpiece TBH, a deeply personal and very dark record that still holds up today.
On the other hand you could just take Rust In Peace and cut it down to the first two tracks and the last two (don't count Dawn Patrol as a song) and it would be a great EP without all the boring filler in the middle.
Youthanasia is a bag of cold shit. It's a soulless, calculated, relentlessly mid-tempo sell-out.
Rust In Peace's only weak point is Dawn Patrol, otherwise it'd be in the Pick One thread. Mighty stuff, almost from start to finish.
I quite like what Dawn Patrol brings, it's like coming up for air, a brief respite before the full-on conclusion to the album that is RIP/Polaris.
Yup, I've no beef with Dawn Patrol.
Rust In Peace starts and ends well but the middle is totally forgettable. That was my impression when I first got the album and I thought those songs would grow on me; nope, they never have done. Boring fillers.
The production job isn't anything to write home about either, I know everyone seems to think the original mix was amazing but there's no bass at all to speak of, everything just sounds really tinny. Beats me why everyone seems to think it's good.
"Five Magics" and "Lucretia" are filler?! ??? ??? ???
Quote from: Carnage on April 06, 2025, 03:03:44 PM1. The Number Of The Beast
2. Gangland
3. The Prisoner
4. Children Of The Damned
5. Invaders
6. Run To The Hills
7. 22 Acacia Avenue
8. Hallowed Be My Name
I was thinking about tracklisting lately and this album in particular. I've never liked the album and felt it might be the tracklisting. Your list feels better on paper and will test it out. I'd agree that the Eclipse song adds nothing and prefer Gangland. It's not great but it's distinctive.
As a stand-alone track Anesthesia is shit, but it is the most different track on the album and gives a little breather. It sets up Whiplash well, but the album probably would've been better without it.
On Metallica, I always felt there was a better sequencing on the Black Album available, it always felt very front heavy, and Nothing Else Matters into Of Wolf sounds awkward.
I always felt Sad Wings of Destiny is better in its original tracklisting, whereby the current side two starts the album, i.e. from Prelude to Dreamer Deceiver, and end on a better high.
Mob Rules is one of Sabbath's best albums but I can't work out why on earth they chose to start it with Turn Up The Night and not E5150/The Mob Rules. Doesn't help that Turn Up The Night is easily one of the worst songs the Dio era line up ever wrote.
Nine Inch Nails - The Fragile is the ultimate example of this idea.
I definitely sent Carnage the 3 and a half hour version I cobbled together a few years ago
Feck, I don't think I ever downloaded it, it slipped my mind!
That's an odd album anyway. I'd always thought that it was overlong and would have worked better as an instrumental album, but when he released an instrumental version I thought it was lacking. I must find the link for your version again.
Devin Townsends Infinity was meant to have a slightly different track list but he didn't have time to finish some of the songs, so he put out the missing ones on the Christeen EP
Its one of my favourite albums as it is, but it does work much better with how he originally intended
Quote from: Trev on April 12, 2025, 06:40:04 PMDevin Townsends Infinity was meant to have a slightly different track list but he didn't have time to finish some of the songs, so he put out the missing ones on the Christeen EP
Its one of my favourite albums as it is, but it does work much better with how he originally intended
I didn't know that at all about Infinity. That's cool I'll have to find the intended list and try it out. Fuckin great album anyway
Quote from: Carnage on April 12, 2025, 06:07:59 PMFeck, I don't think I ever downloaded it, it slipped my mind!
That's an odd album anyway. I'd alwaysbthought that it was overlong and would have worked better as an instrumental album, but when he released an instrumental version I thought it was lacking. I must find the link for your version again.
Gave ages at that the time, so that it wasn't large sections of either too much instrumental or vocal. It's my own go to version and whenever I go back to the original I feel like there's things missing
Quote from: astfgyl on April 12, 2025, 07:37:22 PMQuote from: Trev on April 12, 2025, 06:40:04 PMDevin Townsends Infinity was meant to have a slightly different track list but he didn't have time to finish some of the songs, so he put out the missing ones on the Christeen EP
Its one of my favourite albums as it is, but it does work much better with how he originally intended
I didn't know that at all about Infinity. That's cool I'll have to find the intended list and try it out. Fuckin great album anyway
1. Truth
2. Processional
3. Christeen
4. War
5. Soul Driven
6. Om
7. Dynamics
8. Unity
That's it there
The two songs meant to be on (Processional and Om) fit in perfectly, and when you see the songs that replaced them (Bad Devil, Ants, Noisy Pink Bubbles) you can really start to hear how they're a bit more demo like than the rest
Still fucking great though, but give the original a lash and it's hard to go back to the released version
Sound I'll definitely give that a try
I'll nab the EP and give that a go. I love Infinity but find it very frontloaded.
Currently listening to Skid Row's classic Slave to the Grind. My copy is the clean version which replaces Get the Fuck Out with Beggar's Day. It's a strange decision, as they don't bleep out any of the other swearing on the album so it's not really 'clean'. Maybe GTFO contained too many fucks?! Beggar's Day is a great tune, so I never felt like I was missing out, but I've never actually heard GTFO. I must search for it online.
Anyone else own the clean version of the album, or ever accidentally buy a clean album?
The clean versions are usually US versions, no? My old STTG tape and the CD I bought years later both had GTFO, both would have been bought in hmv or wherever, they're just the regularly available versions here. GTFO is not a great song and the lyrics have aged spectacularly badly. I've never heard or even heard of Beggar's Day, must have a listen. I have a Body Count live bonus CD which, if memory recalls correctly, has bleeps over every swear, making it utterly unlistenable, even more than usual, wha!
There's a version of Stain by Living Colour which has alternate guitar solos. I would love to track that down.
I have a clean version of Attack Of The Killer Bs by Anthrax.
Milk is bleeped and Startin Up A Posse is totally removed. Bought it 2nd hand on amazon years ago and never got the full version. I have it on tape but that's no use.
Just reading up on it - Skid Row had to release a clean version of the album to appease the PRMC.
I gave GTFO a listen. It's grand, but Beggar's Day is a much better tune.
I think Megadeth dropped the ball by giving two of their bests songs to soundtracks in between CTE and Youthanasia.
Youthanasia would have been much better if it kicked off with 99 Ways To Die and Train Of Consequences was replaced with Angry Again. Scoop a few of the fillers off the second half and then it'd be a serious album.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 14, 2025, 09:50:38 PMI think Megadeth dropped the ball by giving two of their bests songs to soundtracks in between CTE and Youthanasia.
Youthanasia would have been much better if it kicked off with 99 Ways To Die and Train Of Consequences was replaced with Angry Again. Scoop a few of the fillers off the second half and then it'd be a serious album.
Go to Hell was another one that should have been on an album.
There's a missing Megadeth album in the making here.
Quote from: Thorn on April 16, 2025, 10:14:45 PMThere's a missing Megadeth album in the making here.
It's called Hidden Treasures. :D
Hehe, fair play, forgot about that one
Quote from: Trev on April 12, 2025, 09:10:18 PMQuote from: astfgyl on April 12, 2025, 07:37:22 PMQuote from: Trev on April 12, 2025, 06:40:04 PMDevin Townsends Infinity was meant to have a slightly different track list but he didn't have time to finish some of the songs, so he put out the missing ones on the Christeen EP
Its one of my favourite albums as it is, but it does work much better with how he originally intended
I didn't know that at all about Infinity. That's cool I'll have to find the intended list and try it out. Fuckin great album anyway
1. Truth
2. Processional
3. Christeen
4. War
5. Soul Driven
6. Om
7. Dynamics
8. Unity
That's it there
The two songs meant to be on (Processional and Om) fit in perfectly, and when you see the songs that replaced them (Bad Devil, Ants, Noisy Pink Bubbles) you can really start to hear how they're a bit more demo like than the rest
Still fucking great though, but give the original a lash and it's hard to go back to the released version
Playing this now and (apart from the obvious jolts between tracks) it flows well. Given that he was in the middle of a full on mental breakdown it's a miracle that it came together so well.
I still regularly reach for Hidden Treasures over Countdown or Youthanasia.
Short and to the point compilation. Always gets a few repeat spins before swapping it out.
Quote from: Maggot Colony on April 14, 2025, 09:34:57 AMCurrently listening to Skid Row's classic Slave to the Grind. My copy is the clean version which replaces Get the Fuck Out with Beggar's Day. It's a strange decision, as they don't bleep out any of the other swearing on the album so it's not really 'clean'. Maybe GTFO contained too many fucks?! Beggar's Day is a great tune, so I never felt like I was missing out, but I've never actually heard GTFO. I must search for it online.
Anyone else own the clean version of the album, or ever accidentally buy a clean album?
I never heard Begger's Day. Have to go look that up. To me 'Slave to the Grind' is perfect start to finish, and teenage me loved the swearing on GTFO.
On a side note, I used to work in a music shop. For some reason we had a censored copy of 2001 by Dr Dre. We must have sold it about ten times - it was always returned the next day ;D
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on April 10, 2025, 01:00:21 PMRust In Peace starts and ends well but the middle is totally forgettable. That was my impression when I first got the album and I thought those songs would grow on me; nope, they never have done. Boring fillers.
The production job isn't anything to write home about either, I know everyone seems to think the original mix was amazing but there's no bass at all to speak of, everything just sounds really tinny. Beats me why everyone seems to think it's good.
Wild take there on both fronts! I think those middle songs are just as killer as the bookends and to me the production is perfect, like if someone asked me what thrash should sound like my answer will always be Rust In Peace, that guitar sound is so fuckin good.
The bass is just right on it too, the remix version with the boosed bass sounds awful to my ears
Quote from: Blankety Blank on April 26, 2025, 09:27:20 PMQuote from: Maggot Colony on April 14, 2025, 09:34:57 AMCurrently listening to Skid Row's classic Slave to the Grind. My copy is the clean version which replaces Get the Fuck Out with Beggar's Day. It's a strange decision, as they don't bleep out any of the other swearing on the album so it's not really 'clean'. Maybe GTFO contained too many fucks?! Beggar's Day is a great tune, so I never felt like I was missing out, but I've never actually heard GTFO. I must search for it online.
Anyone else own the clean version of the album, or ever accidentally buy a clean album?
I never heard Begger's Day. Have to go look that up. To me 'Slave to the Grind' is perfect start to finish, and teenage me loved the swearing on GTFO.
Beggar's Day is a better tune, but I might prefer GTFO if I'd grown up listening to it. The album would probably sound weird to me if I heard the 'unclean' version to be honest.