Metal Warfare - Irish Metal Forum

Metal Discussion => Metal Discussion => Topic started by: Bürggermeister on January 19, 2024, 10:11:59 AM

Title: Return to Form
Post by: Bürggermeister on January 19, 2024, 10:11:59 AM
You see the classic return to form used when an old band who lost their way is about to release a new album which, they promise, won't be as shit as the last one. Has there ever been a genuine return to form, a band who released some absolute shite but somehow found their way back with a genuine classic as good as their best material, or does return to form really just mean went shit, stayed shit but the PR guy got paid and must lie?

I used to think Stench of Redemption was one, but time has proven it was a total fluke.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Trev on January 19, 2024, 10:19:50 AM
I'd say Exodus and Tempo of the Damned, think its easily one of the best things they ever put out
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Pagan Saviour on January 19, 2024, 10:34:19 AM
Do you mean put out another good run of albums or one genuinely good one?

Stench and Tempo fit the bill if it's a one off "Return to Form" but I'd say both of those are flukes, both bands releasing utter shit subsequently.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Bürggermeister on January 19, 2024, 10:35:36 AM
More a run of good stuff, where a band who went shit found a way back to being genuinely good.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: hellfire on January 19, 2024, 11:11:11 AM
Blood On Ice must have been a huge relief to 90's Bathory fans after the twin terrors that were Requiem and Octagon. I didn't get into them until about ten years later.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 19, 2024, 11:59:26 AM
Probably one for the controversial opinions thread but Requiem is my favourite Bathory album.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: The Great Cull on January 19, 2024, 01:06:58 PM
Alice In Chains with Black Gives Way To Blue comes to mind but it's also a bit of a fluke as everything else since has been a few good songs on otherwise lukewarm releases.

BGWTB though was an amazing comeback.

Generally though the "return to form" holds as much water as Dave Mustaine saying "it's our best album since Countdown " or "Hired Gun guitarist is the best player I've ever had in the band"
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 19, 2024, 01:30:01 PM
Monotheist springs to mind, but as it turned out to be their final album would it qualify? Certainly an excellent album either way, but probably belongs in a comeback album conversation.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: ochoill on January 19, 2024, 02:48:12 PM
Sorceress was a turn around for Opeth after a string of weak albums starting around Ghost Reveries - which in itself is fine but not a patch on anything earlier, then Watershed is completely forgettable and the next forays into prog they attempted were shockingly poor.  Sorceress is back to better than GR level quality, with In Cauda Venenum following it and being so good it makes their earlier attempts at this proggier/less metal style seem useless.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 19, 2024, 02:55:18 PM
What about Dante XXI Herr Meister?



Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Cosmic_Equilibrium on January 19, 2024, 03:04:02 PM
Painkiller is the obvious one here surely. I'd also argue that the Ripper years built on that comeback, Priest were a tremendous live band in that era.

BGWTB another candidate as no one thought AIC would ever play again prior to that, let alone make a career best album.

Maiden's career post 1999 and Smith/Dickinson returning has been nothing short of triumphant.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Maggot Colony on January 19, 2024, 03:10:56 PM
Macabre Eternal could be considered a return to form after some fairly shite albums. It's not in the same league as the first 2, but it's a big improvement. The Headless Ritual was a great album as well.

Overkill's Ironbound is another one that springs to mind, and their releases after have ranged from good to great.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Trev on January 19, 2024, 03:13:50 PM
Stratovarius maybe? The last few albums with Tolkki were fairly shit, but after he left everything since then has been much better
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: open face surgery on January 19, 2024, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: ochoill on January 19, 2024, 02:48:12 PMSorceress was a turn around for Opeth after a string of weak albums starting around Ghost Reveries - which in itself is fine but not a patch on anything earlier, then Watershed is completely forgettable and the next forays into prog they attempted were shockingly poor.  Sorceress is back to better than GR level quality, with In Cauda Venenum following it and being so good it makes their earlier attempts at this proggier/less metal style seem useless.

Ah man, Watershed is amazing. Never bothered with Sorceress but love ICV.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 19, 2024, 03:57:32 PM
Must revisit Watershed, didn't have any time for it when it first came out. Sorceress and Heritage I've only appreciated in light of going back to them on the strength of ICV.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Paul keohane on January 19, 2024, 04:28:23 PM
Gorefest-La Meurte
Obituary-frozen in Time
Carcass -Surgical steel

3 very good albums from  bands out of the game for years,the Gorefest especially was immense!
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: mishima on January 19, 2024, 09:46:22 PM
Quote from: Carnage on January 19, 2024, 01:30:01 PMMonotheist springs to mind, but as it turned out to be their final album would it qualify? Certainly an excellent album either way, but probably belongs in a comeback album conversation.

Came on to post this, as I just threw it on a short while ago.
Masterpiece of an album. And I'm obsessed with that guitar tone.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 19, 2024, 10:06:11 PM
It's fantastic, nice chewy sound to it. Shame they didn't do another one before they fell out and then Ain's death, Triptykon do nothing for me at all.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Giggles on January 19, 2024, 10:20:02 PM
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on January 19, 2024, 10:34:19 AMStench and Tempo fit the bill if it's a one off "Return to Form" but I'd say both of those are flukes, both bands releasing utter shit subsequently.

Exodus don't deserve to be described as "utter shit" just because you don't like Rob Dukes. Some excellent songs on the post Tempo albums: Deathamphetamine, .44 Magnus Opus, Children of a Worthless God, Ballad of Lenoard and Charles, Beyond the Pale, Prescribing Horror
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Bürggermeister on January 19, 2024, 10:31:51 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 19, 2024, 02:55:18 PMWhat about Dante XXI Herr Meister?

Yeah, good call, had forgotten about that.

Gave Tempo a spin earlier, it has been years since I listened to it. It starts really strongly but there are some proper fillers on there.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 19, 2024, 11:37:49 PM
Dukes was their best (well, least shit anyway) singer, not that that's much of a high bar.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: The Ancient Ones on January 20, 2024, 01:22:46 AM
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 19, 2024, 04:28:23 PMGorefest-La Meurte
Obituary-frozen in Time
Carcass -Surgical steel

3 very good albums from  bands out of the game for years,the Gorefest especially was immense!

Surgical Steel certainly was far better than it had any business being at that stage in their career!

Controversial one: Morbid Angel Kingdoms Disdained. It may not quite go toe to toe with Altars of Madness or Blessed, but it's easily the equal of Domination or even Covenant if you ignore one or two duff tracks. Takes several listens though - it's very dense.

Painkiller was mentioned upthread (naturally!) but Firepower also deserves a mention - fantastic album!
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 20, 2024, 01:38:47 AM
Surgical Steel is up there with Symphonies and Necroticism for me, one of those that got better with every listen. The follow up never clicked with me though.

Anthrax and Worship Music is one for me. While WCFYA was a decent album (certainly the best of the Bush era, unless you count The Greater Of Two Evils), none of the Bush albums come close to the Belladonna classics and WM was a welcome step up in quality IMO. I'm less convinced by For All Kings but it's still a good listen.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: ochoill on January 20, 2024, 07:52:12 AM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 19, 2024, 03:44:54 PMAh man, Watershed is amazing. Never bothered with Sorceress but love ICV.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 19, 2024, 03:57:32 PMMust revisit Watershed, didn't have any time for it when it first came out. Sorceress and Heritage I've only appreciated in light of going back to them on the strength of ICV.

I liked Watershed for about two weeks when it came out but it wore off me so quickly and so badly that I can barely revisit it now.  Initial impact is great but beyond a few bits and pieces scattered across it there is no real standout.  It has been well over a decade since I last gave it a shot mind so I might try again over the weekend.

Heritage is useless.  Sorceress didn't catch me at first but grew quickly, that said it doesn't go on often either but I would still mark it as their return to form though ICV is better again.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Pagan Saviour on January 20, 2024, 09:04:13 AM
QuoteExodus don't deserve to be described as "utter shit" just because you don't like Rob Dukes. Some excellent songs on the post Tempo albums: Deathamphetamine, .44 Magnus Opus, Children of a Worthless God, Ballad of Lenoard and Charles, Beyond the Pale, Prescribing Horror

Ah most of their records are below par. Bonded is Really the only one you need. Everyone bemoans their exclusion from thrash's elite but at the end of the day they're just not very good. Does anyone in all honesty reach for Atrocity Exhibit or Force of Habit?
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 20, 2024, 11:14:48 AM
Surgical Steel never impressed me that much. Part of that was me not giving the whole album a proper listen until after I'd been soaking up Ecdysis for a few months. I found then, and still find now, that Horrendous were out-Carcassing the latter period Carcass they were trying to reanimate on Surgical Steel and since.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Paul keohane on January 20, 2024, 11:56:09 AM
I remember when Watershed came out lots of people panned it,but i thought it was very good.Having said that it was around then where I lost interest in Opeth.

As for Kingdom Disdained by MA,some great tracks on it,but the production is dog shit!.How the band let that album get released with the production is beyond me.

Sanctus Diavolos by Rotting Christ was a step up from the albums before it imo.That album brought them up a level.
Edit: i mean the 2/3 albums before it.

Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Paul keohane on January 20, 2024, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: Carnage on January 19, 2024, 11:37:49 PMDukes was their best (well, least shit anyway) singer, not that that's much of a high bar.
I cant say I was ever a huge Exodus fan,but there was some weird obsession (negative) with the this guy by a certain section of fans.He seemed to be hated? (Or am i overplaying it)
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 20, 2024, 12:09:38 PM
I don't get it myself. They've never had a good singer but of the three they've had, his voice grated the least. I was gutted when Zetro came back, it's a definite step backward.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: CorkonianHunger on January 20, 2024, 12:26:37 PM
Heaven & Hell
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: mickO))) on January 20, 2024, 01:45:14 PM
Surgical Steel was better than the previous 2 albums but it is still dog shit compared to the first 3 Carcass albums and more of the band selling out.

One band that has returned to form is Nocturnus. The Nocturnus AD album was great and it sounds like what you would have expected to come out right after The Key. I know it is not exactly a return to form since the band history is more complicated than that and Mike wasn't involved with any of the shitty releases the band had. Even After Death was great. A new Nocturnus AD album is due to be released this year.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Ducky on January 20, 2024, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 20, 2024, 11:59:25 AM
Quote from: Carnage on January 19, 2024, 11:37:49 PMDukes was their best (well, least shit anyway) singer, not that that's much of a high bar.
I cant say I was ever a huge Exodus fan,but there was some weird obsession (negative) with the this guy by a certain section of fans.He seemed to be hated? (Or am i overplaying it)

Yeah Dukes seems to be hated. No more than yourself I'm not a huge fan of them, but thought he was grand in his role.

Never understood the dislike of Zetro though, he sounds like Bon Scott with added piss and vinegar.

Baloff should never have been allowed near a microphone, tenders BiB unlistenable.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 20, 2024, 02:56:09 PM
Quote from: Ducky on January 20, 2024, 02:34:09 PMBaloff should never have been allowed near a microphone, tenders BiB unlistenable.

I've been saying this for years, give me Let There Be Blood over BIB any day.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Bürggermeister on January 20, 2024, 05:08:34 PM
Back In Black is grand, lads. What's wrong with yizzers?
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: The Ancient Ones on January 20, 2024, 06:10:10 PM
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 20, 2024, 11:56:09 AMI remember when Watershed came out lots of people panned it,but i thought it was very good.Having said that it was around then where I lost interest in Opeth.

As for Kingdom Disdained by MA,some great tracks on it,but the production is dog shit!.How the band let that album get released with the production is beyond me.

Sanctus Diavolos by Rotting Christ was a step up from the albums before it imo.That album brought them up a level.
Edit: i mean the 2/3 albums before it.



I actually love the production on Kingdoms Disdained! But you gotta love your double bass drums - so high in the mix it'd make Belphegor blush!
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: astfgyl on January 20, 2024, 06:51:17 PM
I bought Watershed myself. Useless so it was. I really wanted to like it but there was nothing there. Sorceress was definitely a return to form for the lads after I'd written them off.

Heritage is fuckin useless as well
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: astfgyl on January 20, 2024, 06:54:35 PM
Actually speaking of a return to form, Porcupine Tree really pulled it out of the bag with the latest one after treading water since In Absentia, and actually including the Wilson solo stuff.

That last album is great. Whether they ever make another remains to be seen though
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Naraka on January 20, 2024, 07:27:49 PM
Marduk's Plague Angel was a return to form and led to a great string of albums, maybe with the exception of Wormwood.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Thorn on January 20, 2024, 08:30:50 PM
Marduk and Nocturnus are both great shouts
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Ducky on January 20, 2024, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Carnage on January 20, 2024, 02:56:09 PM
Quote from: Ducky on January 20, 2024, 02:34:09 PMBaloff should never have been allowed near a microphone, tenders BiB unlistenable.

I've been saying this for years, give me Let There Be Blood over BIB any day.

Yeah he's barely a step above your man Sean Killian caterwauling with Vio-lence.

I've never heard Let There Be Blood, so the only song I've enjoyed from BiB is Sepultura's cover of Piranha.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Eoin McLove on January 21, 2024, 12:55:52 AM
I recently picked up Bonded in Blood having not hard it in 30 years or more. I like it. The vocals are fucking tough which clearly means you lot must be wimps and posers. Just saying.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 21, 2024, 01:52:13 AM
Quote from: Ducky on January 20, 2024, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Carnage on January 20, 2024, 02:56:09 PM
Quote from: Ducky on January 20, 2024, 02:34:09 PMBaloff should never have been allowed near a microphone, tenders BiB unlistenable.

I've been saying this for years, give me Let There Be Blood over BIB any day.

Yeah he's barely a step above your man Sean Killian caterwauling with Vio-lence.

I've never heard Let There Be Blood, so the only song I've enjoyed from BiB is Sepultura's cover of Piranha.

Thy will be done:

https://youtu.be/-yIuTAj2_7I?si=7v0iICMeYDlAzfQy
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Ducky on January 21, 2024, 01:01:07 PM
As it is on earth as it is in YouTube  :abbath:
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Necro Red on January 24, 2024, 11:17:44 AM
Enemy Of Tbe Music Buisness by Naplam is definitely a return to form after their experimental phase. I don't mind that phase, but back to more aggressive songs on enemy
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: londonleatherboy on January 24, 2024, 01:21:56 PM
Accept - Blood Of The Nations
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Paul keohane on January 24, 2024, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: Necro Red on January 24, 2024, 11:17:44 AMEnemy Of Tbe Music Buisness by Naplam is definitely a return to form after their experimental phase. I don't mind that phase, but back to more aggressive songs on enemy
Definitely,good call.

Uprising by Entombed felt like a bit of a return of sorts at the time!.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Carnage on January 24, 2024, 04:56:12 PM
Didn't like that one at all, I thought Morning Star was the return to form album. But then again I like Same Difference, so what do I know?
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Anton Arcane on January 24, 2024, 08:40:37 PM
Low was a return to form for Testament I would say. They were on a gradual downward trajectory from The New Order onwards with more and more fillers clogging up the albums. But Low, for my money anyway, was at least up there quality wise with the first two albums, albeit with a very different sound.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: ldj on January 24, 2024, 08:43:22 PM
If I was to listen to any Testament it's usually The Gathering or Low, not that I don't like the earlier stuff, I suppose it's just a bit more 'standard' thrash, The Gathering especially has a really cool mix of death and thrash metal.

Other return to forms, the past two Voivod albums have been fantastic imo, not that the one's preceding were bad really, just that now the guitarist has settled their really hitting their stride with the new lineup.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: jobrok1 on January 24, 2024, 09:23:33 PM
The Gathering is definitely a return to form.
Especially after the utterly rubbish Demonic.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Paul keohane on January 24, 2024, 10:49:25 PM
Low and The Gathering are my go to Testament albums,Demonic has some great tracks I think.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Squigs on January 24, 2024, 11:47:50 PM
Scars of the Crucifix is a way more enjoyable album to me than Stench but even then, neither are albums that come close to Deicide at their peak. Stench a shift in style and production, sure, but I never really wanted that from Deicide, just write good DM riffs. Stench is like a can of Lilt, feels refreshing at first but really you'd be happier with a solid glass of water.

I think for Mastodon Once More Round the Sun kinda falls into this category. Crack the Skye was the culmination of the first four records, it had kinda gone as far as it could in diff directions while still maintaining that typcial Mastodon sound. While I'd have happily listened to variations on this for years, I expect the band felt a change of pace was needed. The Hunter had zero staying power only a small handful of tracks that felt distinct and interesting. OMRTS kinda shifts that notion into proper gear and everything since has been like Phase2 of the band, with Hushed and Grim kinda having that CTS expanse but with their newer "poppier" sensibilities. Maybe not expressly return to form, but definitely an example of hitting their stride for me.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: jobrok1 on January 24, 2024, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 24, 2024, 10:49:25 PMLow and The Gathering are my go to Testament albums,Dominic has some great tracks I think.

I'm sure Dominic is a grand fella.  :laugh:

But Demonic was a terrible album. The songs were there, but just needed to be fleshed out a LOT more.
It was such a let down after Low, but The Gathering more than made up for it.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Circlepit on January 25, 2024, 08:39:09 AM
Low and The Gathering are brilliant. As is The Formation Of Damnation. The three that came after that are variations of Formation.

The Mastodon thing is spot on. Emperor Of Sand is the only album of theirs I can't get through. It's so boring I can never remember one song when the next song starts on the album.
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Paul keohane on January 25, 2024, 09:34:59 AM
Quote from: jobrok1 on January 24, 2024, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 24, 2024, 10:49:25 PMLow and The Gathering are my go to Testament albums,Dominic has some great tracks I think.

I'm sure Dominic is a grand fella. 
woops  :laugh:
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: StoutAndAle on January 25, 2024, 12:51:42 PM
I would say that AC/DC's "Power Up" is a return to form.

Not to be held up to their very best obviously but it's probably their most consistently solid and straight-through listenable album since "The Razor's Edge" if not "Flick Of The Switch".
Title: Re: Return to Form
Post by: Jward on January 25, 2024, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: jobrok1 on January 24, 2024, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 24, 2024, 10:49:25 PMLow and The Gathering are my go to Testament albums,Dominic has some great tracks I think.

I'm sure Dominic is a grand fella.  :laugh:

But Demonic was a terrible album. The songs were there, but just needed to be fleshed out a LOT more.
It was such a let down after Low, but The Gathering more than made up for it.

I must get onto Dominic, and get a few of those tracks  ;D