just read a snippet from the upcoming book about Scott Burns, (Human chapter), and this is pretty interesting:
Paul Masvidal: You can hear some Atheist-type riffs on Human. It's funny because Chuck had a weird, contentious relationship with Kelly [Shaefer]. I remember Kelly visiting us in the studio, and he and Chuck just didn't get along. They had this weird dynamic. Chuck wasn't nice to Kelly, and I was never sure why. Atheist were so much in their own world. They were visionaries, so maybe there was some degree of jealousy because Atheist was pushing the envelope. It was like, "What the fuck is this music they are making?"
Kelly Shaefer: I'm going to be as respectful as possible here. I think Chuck was threatened by Atheist. When Borivoj Krgin was about to sign us to Mean Machine Records in mid-1987, we played a show in Tampa that Chuck attended. Chuck called Borivoj the next day and told him that everyone left the room when we played, and it sounded like a "train station." It made Bori question the deal. We still signed with Mean Machine, but what Chuck said never sat right with me.
Chuck slandered Atheist to anyone who would listen, saying that we only listened to jazz and were "false metal." He initially shunned technicality and the jazz philosophy applied to extreme metal. It wasn't until our friends, Sean Reinert and Paul Masvidal, joined Death that Chuck recognized the value of furthering the intricacy of metal by fusing top-notch musicianship, something we were already eyeballs-deep in. He was at least a fan of Psychotic Waltz and Watchtower. Chuck is owed a world of respect for his early visionary, brutal, horror-type music, but he didn't plan the tech-metal revolution. He showed up late and didn't bring beer or weed!
The demos off the Relapse deluxe Human reissue are worth hearing. A few feature Bill Andrews and Terry Butler and make it very clear that the songs and riffs on Human aren't much of a progression from what Chuck had done before, just the playing of Reinert (in particular), Masvidal and DiDiorgio elevates it into the album we all know and love. It was ITP where he started to stretch into the technical stuff but, tragically (even though Hoglan was superb), Reinert isn't on it.
It's fair to say Chuck was a divisive ould hoor, though, and there were plenty of people he alienated along the way and by the time of his death.
The bit in that section about him burying the bass a-la AJFA is interesting too.The Relapse reissue rights a wrong there, too.
He certainly came across as a prick in the documentary, so this doesn't surprise me at all.
good point with those early versions of some Human songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwnG1ltSU0
Quote from: Bürggermeister on September 20, 2023, 02:14:39 PMThe demos off the Relapse deluxe Human reissue are worth hearing. A few feature Bill Andrews and Terry Butler and make it very clear that the songs and riffs on Human aren't much of a progression from what Chuck had done before, just the playing of Reinert (in particular), Masvidal and DiDiorgio elevates it into the album we all know and love. It was ITP where he started to stretch into the technical stuff but, tragically (even though Hoglan was superb), Reinert isn't on it.
It's fair to say Chuck was a divisive ould hoor, though, and there were plenty of people he alienated along the way and by the time of his death.
The bit in that section about him burying the bass a-la AJFA is interesting too.The Relapse reissue rights a wrong there, too.
Atheist's rehearsal Spring 1991:
https://youtu.be/gTOo6DXvhq4?si=Jsai0dMTlfhZ1I3I
Quote from: Malco on September 20, 2023, 02:50:12 PMgood point with those early versions of some Human songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwnG1ltSU0
Quote from: Bürggermeister on September 20, 2023, 02:14:39 PMThe demos off the Relapse deluxe Human reissue are worth hearing. A few feature Bill Andrews and Terry Butler and make it very clear that the songs and riffs on Human aren't much of a progression from what Chuck had done before, just the playing of Reinert (in particular), Masvidal and DiDiorgio elevates it into the album we all know and love. It was ITP where he started to stretch into the technical stuff but, tragically (even though Hoglan was superb), Reinert isn't on it.
It's fair to say Chuck was a divisive ould hoor, though, and there were plenty of people he alienated along the way and by the time of his death.
The bit in that section about him burying the bass a-la AJFA is interesting too.The Relapse reissue rights a wrong there, too.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on September 20, 2023, 02:14:39 PMThe bit in that section about him burying the bass a-la AJFA is interesting too.The Relapse reissue rights a wrong there, too.
I watched an interview with Steve DiGiorgio before where he goes into putting on Human for the first time and being shocked at how low in the mix he was.
Gotta say, for someone held in such regard, Chuck always seemed like a bit of a cunt.
Not sure I rate Death all that highly either besides "Leprosy".
Quote from: Malco on September 20, 2023, 12:18:27 PMhe didn't plan the tech-metal revolution. He showed up late and didn't bring beer or weed!
Haha, great line from Kelly!
Always preferred Atheist to Death.
I always preferred Death over Atheist, but Chuck seems to have been a bit of buck. Tis a Shame he did not live by some of the lyrics he wrote about small minded people.
Would prefer Atheist myself but Human is not far off. Wonder was it just that Atheist were doing something more interesting at the time as far as chuck saw it.
If we're talking about 1987, then everyone who prefers Death's earlier stuff (i.e. a helluva lot of Death fans) is presumably damn happy he hated anything like Atheist at the time.
Was never a massive Atheist fan,Death one of my all time favourite bands.
I had a very brief listen to the first song on Unquestionable Presence last night after reading the first post in this thread. I had never heard a single note of Athiest before. I think I assumed they would be as polite sounding as Cynic who just don't do it for me at all. The really awful album cover didn't help their cause in my eyes; nothing about them ever appealed to me or captured my imagination. I was surprised at how good it sounded, I have to say. The vocals stood out as being particularly interesting and unusual without being annoying the way the Cynic vocals are. I'll have to listen to the full album later.
I'm not much of a Death fan either so the drama is interesting to read as a non- partisan person and the catty final comment from the Athiest dude gave me a chuckle.
I love Death but the online fetishisation over what a pure and amazing soul he was is pretty funny considering any time I read something from someone who actually knew him he is always portrayed as very difficult.
Suppose being a bit of a dick isn't too bad taking into account how talented he was.
I bought Human and Unquestionable Presence on the same day. Human, because it was the new Death album at the time and I was a complete Death fanboy back then, UP because it had a guy from Cynic playing bass and Chuck had used Cynic guys for Human, so I had read in Metal Forces. Both would figure highly in the all-time list, if I had one. For the first few years, I rated Human as the be all-end all but, over time, I've come to rank UP as possibly one of the greatest albums ever. There's nothing I've heard which blends quality songwriting, aggression and technicality quite so well. Both were essential listening during the wilderness of the mid to late 90's, a teaser of how great things could have been.
Do I give a fuck if Chuck was a cunt? No, not if him and Kelly being bitchy resulted in getting both Human and Unquestionable Presence.
It was fucking amazing to follow from a distance at the time but could you imagine being in Florida with this and Morbid Angel and Obituary etc coming out around you?
Quote from: Bürggermeister on September 20, 2023, 11:12:54 PMI bought Human and Unquestionable Presence on the same day.
Juggz, is that you?
Honestly, Human is my all time favourite album, Cynic's Focus isn't far behind, and UP rounds out the trio. Focus and UP are interchangeable a lot of the time (until I remember Rush's "A Farewell to Kings" wrecks them both).
Absolutely love Death. Don't think it's news to anyone who followed Chuck over the years that he could seem a bit of prick.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on September 20, 2023, 11:14:17 PMIt was fucking amazing to follow from a distance at the time but could you imagine being in Florida with this and Morbid Angel and Obituary etc coming out around you?
Ah yeah, sure MA alone would have forced him to up his game never mind younger bands. That's kind of the thing for Death with me really, I hugely understand Chucks importance but musically they were eclipsed very quickly by what came after them. Must have been hugely frustrating for him when you listen to those "Human" rehearsals to see younger bands playing with a higher level of skill and fluidity