Metal Warfare - Irish Metal Forum

Most expensive TV show of all time get its own thread?

Watched first ep and a half there, will finish tonight.

Visually absolutely stunning, leagues beyond the aesthetic richness of the new GoT. Acting so far is spot on, story well spun, great action, funny accents maybe a stumbling block for the first few minutes, but very small complaint. The races all acting just like you'd expect based on the films' approach and really well written dialogue. So far, nothing major to critique at all and don't think anyone into the LOTR movie trilogy will be disappointed. I am most certainly not, having just had 90 great minutes of it. (Disclaimer: I don't know the Silmarillion, etc., lore as well as some of ye may, so I can't comment on changes that may irk those who do.)

Forgot about this going to throw it on tonight. Are there many episodes?

I've read the Silmarillion and I welcome it being presented in a way that anyone could understand. I'd say only the nerdiest of nerds will remember enough of the book to notice anything or maybe it's just me but it's one of the worst things I've ever read and LOTR is one of my favourites.

2 eps went live today, 1 a week every Friday from next week.

Ah grand I won't have to stay up all night if it's good

I'm assuming that because The Silmarillion is the first age, mostly, and the show is second age, there isn't too much scope to interfere with the lore overly much, apart from what has been discussed already. Fingers crossed. Hopefully I get a gawk at it this evening.

True. You've read The Lost Tales and stuff too though, right? So you'd still know better (I don't even know when they are all set). Prob be a bit of foundational myth telling in there from time to time over the whole series, I'd imagine.

The History of Middle Earth is a huge compilation of stuff and it's not hugely enjoyable. That said, I've only dipped my toes. People complain about The Silmarillion being inaccessible (personally it's my favourite book) but The History.... is such an amount to read for not a huge amount of actual story, that only those reading Tolkien at a scholarly level would really take anything from it. Maybe others here have delved deeper. The Fall of Numenor is due out soon and that could be the first standalone book to be set in the second age. Open to correction

Always enjoyed The Silmarillion myself too, but haven't opened it since my late teens.

Have read only the 3 Lotr books. Cautiously optimistic about this. Looks stunning.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 02, 2022, 04:24:14 PMVisually absolutely stunning, leagues beyond the aesthetic richness of the new GoT. Acting so far is spot on, story well, spun, great action, funny accents maybe a stumbling block for the first few minutes, but very small complaint.

Glad to hear that it looks good on screen because the ads I've seen for it looked poor enough! I read the trilogy a few times and loved it. Never had any inclination to dip into the expanded lore of The Silmarillion etc. so it'll all be fresh to me. Looking forward to giving it a watch.

Have it on here just finished ep 1 and I was waiting for cruise and Kidman to turn up with some of those accents. The Irish lad in braveheart - come back all is forgiven your accent wasn't the worst after all.

Anyway, that gripe aside it looks fantastic and feels like LOTR too. The couple of familiar faces helps and as I had hoped, the whole Silmarillion was pretty much covered by the first scenes before the credits even rolled and would have saved me 6 months of hard torture a few years ago.

Oh would if I could have enjoyed that book even a small bit more than I did enjoy reading the Bible that time I wanted to give the Jehovah's witnesses a hard time over the content of it. Would if I could indeed

Imagine a TV series based on The Bible. Now that would be epic, dark and amazing if tackled properly. Probably only a matter of time.

Can I just ask preemptively for spoiler warnings if indepth discussion happens? Dunno when I'll get to it and I've only read The Hobbit and 3 TLOTR books. Ta.

Spoiler alert: I remember most of the characters in the show from the Silmarillion but I still can't remember a note of the book.

The Bible will be unreal when it comes out. Some level of lore to go through in that one.

The Old Testament will be some craic.

Aye, accents are funny, but I found forgiveness in the fact that, unlike Cruise, Kidman, J Roberts, H Graham, etc., etc., etc., they weren't supposed to be actually "Irish".

I'd have happily watched a 3rd, 4th and maybe more last night after the 2nd ended. Only 8 in total this season.

Watched the 2 episodes last night. Jesus it looks fucking amazing. Good story and the acting ain't bad so looking forward to more.

I enjoyed the first episode, haven't seen the second yet. As said, it does look great. I would have lapped this up as a teenager but finding it hard to summon much enthusiasm for this kind of thing these days. I think the final seasons of GOT killed off any goodwill on my part towards the fantasy genre.
Article from the Times below on the Irish accents. Hard to disagree with a lot of it. That said, I'd always imagined the hobbits having a bit of a rustic, west country accent, and that seems to have been how they were depicted in the films.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio/2022/08/31/rings-of-power-the-new-hobbits-are-filthy-hungry-simpletons-with-stage-irish-accents-thats-1bn-well-spent/

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 03, 2022, 08:21:38 AMAye, accents are funny, but I found forgiveness in the fact that, unlike Cruise, Kidman, J Roberts, H Graham, etc., etc., etc., they weren't supposed to be actually "Irish".

I'd have happily watched a 3rd, 4th and maybe more last night after the 2nd ended. Only 8 in total this season.

Yeah that's how I got over it too tbf

Quote from: John Kimble on September 03, 2022, 11:23:19 AMArticle from the Times below on the Irish accents. Hard to disagree with a lot of it. That said, I'd always imagined the hobbits having a bit of a rustic, west country accent, and that seems to have been how they were depicted in the films.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio/2022/08/31/rings-of-power-the-new-hobbits-are-filthy-hungry-simpletons-with-stage-irish-accents-thats-1bn-well-spent/

No time for martyrdom takes like this tbh. Not to mention that yer man doesn't seem to understand anything about the world of Middle Earth. The hobbits were clearly never cast as an "inferior" race by Tolkien for one thing, so it's no insult if the harfoots have been given Irish accents (even though, they're precisely not fully Irish accents). Tolkien's whole approach to heroic exploits was that the prosperity of a world relies on the cooperation of all sorts, all having different characteristics. No elf or dwarf or human could have done what Sam & Frodo accomplished, which was vitally necessary for the future of their world. This is supposed to be painfully obvious. The races look down on each other amongst themselves, but the reader, with their omniscient point of view, is supposed to see just how wrong they are to do this (Gandalf, notably, understands this). Nothing has been presented yet, but we can be sure that if the harfoots are appearing, it's because they are going to have some kind of similar vital role. The hack martyr there calls the harfoots "dirty", etc., whereas a more up to date ecological view would say that they form a unit with their environment, as witnessed by the very first scene they appear in. That's a kind of ninja super power I don't believe 19th century Irish peasants possessed. Ah sure, if someone watched the first episode, as a "journalist", and the best thing they could think of to share with the world about it was that article, let's just say I'm very glad I'm not that person.

As I've mentioned before, nobody seems to be upset about the fact that nowhere in the lore does it say that elves have pointy ears.

Also re the accents, it's sort of a mix of Irish Scottish Welsh and West country I'm hearing in them but is that the actors different takes on the generic TV Irish accent or is it supposed to be a generally vague sort of rustic or hokey thing?

I just meant episode specific stuff like.

Quote from: Eoin McLove on September 03, 2022, 05:47:15 AMThe Old Testament will be some craic.

Yeah the new testament won't hold a candle to it

Inevitable given the level of their pettiness and immaturity, but I see the series has been "review bombed" by trolls on Rotten Tomatoes. It won't have any impact on viewership, especially given the disparity up to the critics' score, but, wow, this kind of behavior, this is the real paroxysm of entitlement culture.

Why, what's the gripe?

Maybe they don't like it?

I've a feeling it's some kind of woke/anti-woke thing and tbf one's as bad as the other.

I enjoyed it for what it is which to me is a bit more Tolkien on the screen

Quote from: astfgyl on September 03, 2022, 09:45:47 PMI've a feeling it's some kind of woke/anti-woke thing and tbf one's as bad as the other.

Sure is. Ruined IMDb comments section and ratings. The saddest of people.

"the harfoots are appearing, it's because they are going to have some kind of similar vital role. The hack martyr there calls the harfoots "dirty", etc., whereas a more up to date ecological view would say that they form a unit with their environment, as witnessed by the very first scene they appear in. That's a kind of ninja super power I don't believe 19th century Irish peasants possessed"

Some spiel there. Irish Tolkien fans can box it up any way they like but the Anglosphere will recognise it immediately as the Punch cartoon dirty thick Irish. A fuckin Aussie directed the accents as having an Irish base and Aussies love their dirty Paddy jibes.  Ive challenged plenty of the cunts on it to watch their lip
 

Sure at least half the Aussies have dirty Paddy DNA in them somewhere  :laugh:

Watched the first ep. Not bad. The older elves look like insurance salesmen and the younger ones look like fellas you'd meet in the off-license in Tesco. It's a feast for the eyes alright.

Only watched the first episode so far but I enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to the rest of it. Some dodgy acting here and there bit other than that it's good. Seems similar in tone to the first movies.
The level of hatred directed at it, even before a single epispde was aired is pretty pathetic.

Quote from: 91/30 on September 03, 2022, 10:09:57 PM"the harfoots are appearing, it's because they are going to have some kind of similar vital role. The hack martyr there calls the harfoots "dirty", etc., whereas a more up to date ecological view would say that they form a unit with their environment, as witnessed by the very first scene they appear in. That's a kind of ninja super power I don't believe 19th century Irish peasants possessed"

Some spiel there. Irish Tolkien fans can box it up any way they like but the Anglosphere will recognise it immediately as the Punch cartoon dirty thick Irish. A fuckin Aussie directed the accents as having an Irish base and Aussies love their dirty Paddy jibes.  Ive challenged plenty of the cunts on it to watch their lip
 

This guy rules.

Never cared about Russians and Arabs being cast as villains, not going to start caring about innocent rustic folk being portrayed with Irish accents. I'd be awful surprised if anyone complaining has ever cared when it was others being stereotyped, eh lads?

Christ you're a tiresome cunt

And the author of the IT article, exhuming the builder from Fawlty Towers again isn't tiresome? Grand so.

Never had a problem with anything in Fawlty Towers. Germans, Spaniards, Irish all mocked, who gives a shit? It's of it's time, and the gimpery of the BBC giving trigger warnings and outright censoring a classic comedy series is cringeworthy, grotesquely so. Another assault on comedy.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 04, 2022, 11:35:04 AMAnd the author of the IT article, exhuming the builder from Fawlty Towers again isn't tiresome? Grand so.

Not really, no. Fawlty Towers is well over 40 years old. There has been a huge amount of commentary about the Rings of Power and its more diverse approach to casting, so it's a bit odd in that context that they would revert to lazy stereotypes when it comes to Irish. You can prattle on all you want about the plucky little hobbits. Not everyone is well versed on Middle Earth and taken at face value, it's fairly obvious that the Hobbits or Harfoots or whoever are portrayed as unadventurous, small-minded simpletons. Am I personally offended by this? Not really. But hardly surprising that a journalist would fixate on this.

Lads, ye're talking through yer rings of power.
Its fiction, grow up.
Yer time would be far better spent keeping an eye on how the Irish are being portrayed in reality by our own media and news outlets than getting yer nerdy knickers in a twist over some bastardised money making racket of a TV series.
Fuck sake.

You're another tiresome cunt. I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about anything. I posted a link. It's a discussion, on a forum. There's a thread about conspiracy theories if you want to fuck off over there.

Yer man Ed Power, who in real life can only be some kind of unbearably over-sensitive dry shite, definitely got his knickers in a twist. Ending up with that, "If anything the Irish should be... the Elves!" shite. Jesus, proper spa goings on, seriously. I'm not associating you with the content of the article Mr.Kimble, just saying, christ, but that shite to me is the very epitome of tiresome, no matter who's coming out with it. And you'd all be saying the same if it was someone from literally any other nation under the sun.

I'm a bit surprised with one of the most expensive series of all times not being able to invest bigger part of the budget into better acting.

I think it's hilarious really that instead of anything about the story itself or the lore or anything like that it's the Irish accents that's getting everyone going.

Could just not watch it or get over it. And yeah the accents are shit but it's hardly a deal-breaker.

I have to watch the second episode again because I was on the sauce so it passed me by a bit. Might just throw the two on again altogether so maybe we can get the ball rolling on discussing the story instead of the accents. At least everyone stopped caring about the diverse cast anyway

Quote from: John Kimble on September 04, 2022, 01:07:21 PMYou're another tiresome cunt. I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about anything. I posted a link. It's a discussion, on a forum. There's a thread about conspiracy theories if you want to fuck off over there.

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
I'm sooooo sorry I expressed my opinion on the content of this tread and upset you johnny john, I'm a bold boy and should have my botty slapped.

Quote from: astfgyl on September 04, 2022, 01:27:22 PMAt least everyone stopped caring about the diverse cast anyway

Going on the first ep, he's, ironically, the only one who actually carries himself elf-like. I'm not too bothered by the accent thing. It's a bit naff and juvenile in the way that it comes across, probably to appeal to youngsters and what not. I'm more put out by the rest of the elves being pretty lame.

Just watched the first episode and quite enjoyed it TBH. The leprehobbits are absolutely cringeworthy of course (the Irish/backward subtext is as insulting as it is deliberate) and the accents are appalling, but thankfully there's relatively little of them so far. As everyone has said, it looks amazing too.

I've a friend who's working on the second seeason now who wasn't impressed with it, but on the basis of this episode I'm optimistic.

Quote from: astfgyl on September 04, 2022, 01:27:22 PMAt least everyone stopped caring about the diverse cast anyway

The people who were really going on about this didn't seem to know anything about Tolkien lore beyond the films. Tolkien describes High Elves as having pale complexion, but Arondir is not a high elf. Then there are the Harfoots, who Tolkien himself described as "browner of skin" than the other two Hobbit precursor races (if anything, it may be that the hobbits of the LOTR films were too white to be strictly faithful to Tolkien, which apparently is of the utmost importance to these people). That leaves the dwarf princess. I don't got nothing one way or the other for that.

Apart from all that shite...
SPOILERS START HERE: the big question for the moment seems to be whether the stranger from the meteor is Gandalf or whether it's a deception that he appears to be. Going by the history, people are saying he shouldn't arrive in Middle Earth for another millenium or so, but he would be alive at this time already in Valinor, I think. Are they maybe writing in a "first coming" for him?

B178FC8C-B327-412C-AC5E-9DE822A94C51.jpeg

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 04, 2022, 05:51:04 PM

Quote from: astfgyl on September 04, 2022, 01:27:22 PMAt least everyone stopped caring about the diverse cast anyway

The people who were really going on about this didn't seem to know anything about Tolkien lore beyond the films. Tolkien describes High Elves as having pale complexion, but Arondir is not a high elf. Then there are the Harfoots, who Tolkien himself described as "browner of skin" than the other two Hobbit precursor races (if anything, it may be that the hobbits of the LOTR films were too white to be strictly faithful to Tolkien, which apparently is of the utmost importance to these people). That leaves the dwarf princess. I don't got nothing one way or the other for that.

Apart from all that shite...

Spoiler

the big question for the moment seems to be whether the stranger from the meteor is Gandalf or whether it's a deception that he appears to be. Going by the history, people are saying he shouldn't arrive in Middle Earth for another millenium or so, but he would be alive at this time already in Valinor, I think. Are they maybe writing in a "first coming" for him?

[close]

The dwarf Princess is missing her beard. Some load of woke bollix making her look female, human-style.

Re the spoiler, it looks like that's the hint but I feel like you're saying that we might be getting thrown a curveball there but you'd never know how faithful they did or didn't stay to timelines at this stage.

Watched the first one there again and re the spoiler, it's surely going to be the lad

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 04, 2022, 05:51:04 PM

Quote from: astfgyl on September 04, 2022, 01:27:22 PMAt least everyone stopped caring about the diverse cast anyway

Apart from all that shite...

Spoiler

the big question for the moment seems to be whether the stranger from the meteor is Gandalf or whether it's a deception that he appears to be. Going by the history, people are saying he shouldn't arrive in Middle Earth for another millenium or so, but he would be alive at this time already in Valinor, I think. Are they maybe writing in a "first coming" for him?

[close]

Spoiler

Ya, I think that's likely a good call. I'd definitely say they'll introduce the Istari. I think Saruman is the eldest so unless he's already knocking around.... or unless they introduce him slightly out of order. It is likely to be Gandalf, what with the affinity he has for them.

[close]

Yes, that's exactly what I said to herself when we were watching, that if it is him, it's kind of a nice way of giving reason to that affinity.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 05, 2022, 08:09:36 AM

Spoiler

Yes, that's exactly what I said to herself when we were watching, that if it is him, it's kind of a nice way of giving reason to that affinity.

[close]

100%

Quote from: Emphyrio on September 05, 2022, 07:42:53 AM

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 04, 2022, 05:51:04 PM

Quote from: astfgyl on September 04, 2022, 01:27:22 PMAt least everyone stopped caring about the diverse cast anyway

Apart from all that shite...

Spoiler

the big question for the moment seems to be whether the stranger from the meteor is Gandalf or whether it's a deception that he appears to be. Going by the history, people are saying he shouldn't arrive in Middle Earth for another millenium or so, but he would be alive at this time already in Valinor, I think. Are they maybe writing in a "first coming" for him?

[close]

Spoiler

Ya, I think that's likely a good call. I'd definitely say they'll introduce the Istari. I think Saruman is the eldest so unless he's already knocking around.... or unless they introduce him slightly out of order. It is likely to be Gandalf, what with the affinity he has for them.

[close]

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 05, 2022, 08:09:36 AM

Spoiler

Yes, that's exactly what I said to herself when we were watching, that if it is him, it's kind of a nice way of giving reason to that affinity.

[close]

Quote from: Emphyrio on September 05, 2022, 08:25:02 AM

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 05, 2022, 08:09:36 AM

Spoiler

Yes, that's exactly what I said to herself when we were watching, that if it is him, it's kind of a nice way of giving reason to that affinity.

[close]

100%

It would fit well indeed and maybe doesn't even have to go against timelines because it was a little vague about the when in the books iirc

One thing that made me doubt is the echo in Nori remarking that the flame from the meteor is not hot and what Galadriel says about the torches giving off no heat due to the fortress in the northern wastelands being "so evil". Could be just a coincidence (or more deception!), but I was reminded of it as soon as Nori said it. And seems a few people think it's not Gandalf, but rather Sauron, even though to me Sauron arriving like that doesn't make sense. He's supposed to already be in Middle Earth.

How do I read spoilers without quoting the post, it says I'm barred

The spoilers yoke is kinda spoiling the overall look of the thread in general too, I think.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 05, 2022, 10:24:56 AM

Spoiler

One thing that made me doubt is the echo in Nori remarking that the flame from the meteor is not hot and what Galadriel says about the torches giving off no heat due to the fortress in the northern wastelands being "so evil". Could be just a coincidence (or more deception!), but I was reminded of it as soon as Nori said it. And seems a few people think it's not Gandalf, but rather Sauron, even though to me Sauron arriving like that doesn't make sense. He's supposed to already be in Middle Earth.

[close]

Ya, that would be odd.

When I started the thread, I took it that people would take for granted that it was going to contain spoilers, but there was a request for spoilers to come with a warning, so I was just respecting that. Will I change the thread title instead, make it a free-for-all spoil zone? I'm easy.

Would probably be more enjoyable to chat about it freely to be fair.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 05, 2022, 10:24:56 AM

Spoiler

One thing that made me doubt is the echo in Nori remarking that the flame from the meteor is not hot and what Galadriel says about the torches giving off no heat due to the fortress in the northern wastelands being "so evil". Could be just a coincidence (or more deception!), but I was reminded of it as soon as Nori said it. And seems a few people think it's not Gandalf, but rather Sauron, even though to me Sauron arriving like that doesn't make sense. He's supposed to already be in Middle Earth.

[close]

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 05, 2022, 10:24:56 AM

Spoiler

One thing that made me doubt is the echo in Nori remarking that the flame from the meteor is not hot and what Galadriel says about the torches giving off no heat due to the fortress in the northern wastelands being "so evil". Could be just a coincidence (or more deception!), but I was reminded of it as soon as Nori said it. And seems a few people think it's not Gandalf, but rather Sauron, even though to me Sauron arriving like that doesn't make sense. He's supposed to already be in Middle Earth.

[close]

Didn't cop the cold flame bit good spot. Saruman perhaps? I think it's what we think it is after watching it again. Far too benevolent looking.

Also re spoilers I'm easy with them. All one has to do is stay out of it until they're up to date and we can't spoil it for them

Yes!
Warning in the title and fuck the Moaning Mary's.

Quote from: jobrok1 on September 05, 2022, 11:02:24 PMYes!
Warning in the title and fuck the Moaning Mary's.

 :abbath:

Have to watch episode 2 again after falling asleep during it. Don't spoil it on me please lads

Enjoyed ep2 more than the first. The dwarves are very much like the Hobbit version more than LoTR, which wouldn't have been my choice but whatever. Between the mannerisms and accents, I think they've leaned in too heavily with the harfoots but I don't think any non-Irish person would see an issue. It's just hard to distance myself from it. I'm sure that'll pass though.

I was convinced that fella was Gandalf initially, then they made me have my doubts so they've done this part of the story very well. They could have gone very obvious with it.

Credit for Feanor's hammer scene too. If they keep throwing in nods to the lore, it'll more than make up for silly accents and the like.

Okay, thread title changed and I've edited my posts. You've been warned now: there are spoilers here that do not sleep.

Quote from: Emphyrio on September 06, 2022, 07:39:51 AMThe dwarves are very much like the Hobbit version more than LoTR, which wouldn't have been my choice but whatever.

Tend to agree with you. Though it was hard for the dwarves in LoTR to be annoying, since most of them were corpses LOL. Then again, if they'd gone Tolkien faithful on the dwarves there would have been a lot more actual singing inside that mountain than just talking about it. Shit... maybe I've just jinxed that!  :laugh:

I hope they blast out one tune, just the one though. That one at the start of The Hobbit is class.

It was me who mentioned spoilers, but the thread title warning is plenty.

Watched the second episode there, setting stuff up nicely. Looked great again, the flaming crater stuff and the valley outside Khazad Dum in particular.

I watched House of the Dragon and Rings of Power back to back. Rings aesthetically looks a million miles ahead. Would be worth seeing in the cinema.

A projector at home, if you've a spare white wall somewhere, is definitely worth a wee investment. We've had ours 3 years now and it's paid for itself countless times over, not just replacing cinema visits since the young fella's been born, but also for spectacle type shows like this, GoT, Picard, etc. Not a mad expensive set up either, just connected to the hi-fi for sound, so stereo rather than fancy 5.1, but for the visual aspect, can't be beat: in a relatively small room (11 foot wide) we get a 95 inch screen.

I've been watching it on the projector myself it's class on it

It's damn tempting.

I got one handy online for about 120 that plays anything. Great for split screen gaming as well as movies and TV. I just have it hooked up to a couple of small studio monitors and it's brilliant. First thing I watched on it was Saving Private Ryan I was buzzing hard off it. Also cool for gig videos

Might have a look into one so. Sounds the job.

Finally got through episode 2. Yeah really enjoying this. Can't wait for them to make an absolute fuck of it. Well hopefully not but it has potential

Also not a peep from the Irish about the woke Scottish dwarves. Maneens.

Watching a few scenes from the first ep a second time there and I was reminded of one gripe I have: parts of the score sound exactly like the old "And all because the lady loves Milk Tray" ad music  :laugh:

I haven't seen it yet but I liked the Jackson LOTR movies when they were out. They looked like a realistic fantasy world peeled away in extreme detail. Dirty, dramatic, violent, horrific, magical. The Hobbit movies were dross. Now this re-imagining (as I understand) of Tolkien's world is being marketed as "it looks great", which is fine but woe betide anyone who says any bad things about it because you are probably a fascist, which I find incredibly toxic, so yeah,it's a 'pass'  from me. No interest.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 07, 2022, 02:17:48 PMWatching a few scenes from the first ep a second time there and I was reminded of one gripe I have: parts of the score sound exactly like the old "And all because the lady loves Milk Tray" ad music  :laugh:

Ah fuck now I'll hear it. Sound.

Quote from: leatherface on September 07, 2022, 02:32:08 PMI haven't seen it yet but I liked the Jackson LOTR movies when they were out. They looked like a realistic fantasy world peeled away in extreme detail. Dirty, dramatic, violent, horrific, magical. The Hobbit movies were dross. Now this re-imagining (as I understand) of Tolkien's world is being marketed as "it looks great", which is fine but woe betide anyone who says any bad things about it because you are probably a fascist, which I find incredibly toxic, so yeah,it's a 'pass'  from me. No interest.

I also find that attitude stinks, but it's not like that tbf. It's actually quite good so far and might as well accept that everything is going to be inclusive from here on in. It feels like the LOTR movie universe and might even look a bit better given how much time has passed.

The Hobbit movies are disgracefully bad. Even worse on a rewatch actually. It's better than those already.

This new series is already streets ahead of the Hobbit, which wouldn't be hard in fairness. A bit disappointed with the third episode though. I thought the 2nd episode was a big improvement on the first, obviously there has to be a bit of scene setting etc. But that latest one was a bit of an non-event, apart from the scenes with the orcs.

Ep 3, big change of pace. On a first watch anyway, twas too slow and a little too much of a strange mix; in parts it was more cinematic than we've yet seen it, in places too much so, but in other parts also more like a TV show (unnecessarily long conversations here and there) than anything in the first 2 eps. And the reveal of the sigil, which was nicely done, nevertheless tells us nothing we hadn't already guessed, so... aye, mixed feelings on this one.

I'll reserve judgement until I give it the 2nd watch but it was a bit slower tbf

Jaysus if it's slower again herself will definitely throw in the towel.

I still liked it on first look but I always miss things on the first go. Subtitles are quite useful for introducing characters too.

Also I copped at the start that it says it's based on the book The Lord Of The Rings and Appendices. So nothing from the Silmarillion then seemingly.

They have access to anything that's mentioned in LotR, its appendices, and, I think, The Hobbit. Nothing else. BUT it does mean that they can reference things that are in The Silmarillion, insofar as many episodes are mentioned in the appendices. But yeah, they don't actually have the rights to Unfinished Tales, etc., which I initially thought they did. It was well publicized that the estate were guarding The Silmarillion, so I incorrectly thought they'd have access to the rest. Basically, they paid all those millions for access to a limited part of the universe. The Tolkien Estate must be shrewd af.

Aye I wonder how much they'll sell the rights to the rest of it when Amazon want to make the next one. I must look again but I didn't see the Hobbit mentioned in the credits, although I haven't looked into it much except for presuming a few things. I tried not to read anything about it before I went in, just so it'd all be a surprise.

Thought episode 3 was class !

Agreed, I really enjoyed that episode.

The opening credits sequence is lame, both visually and musically, now that I have seen it a few times.

I did originally think the opening credits were too game of thronesy, but I actually think they're v well done if Im right in what think it represents. Although I'm not so sure not after the talk of not having rights to the silmarillion.

I assumed it was based on the first few chapters of it, about the creation of the world. The angels (forget the tolkein word used for them) sang in harmony to create the universe etc. The patterns of the grains of sand are the different harmonies they created, like sand on a speaker forming intricate patterns. As it goes on you see a snake like shape slithering through, distrubing the sand and break up the harmonic patterns. Which represents morgoth going against the chosen harmonies, disturbing them to create things for his own evil means. Can't remember the exact wording of the silmarillion but you get the jist.

When I looked at the credits I thought it was just sort of a representation of the rings themselves. Your interpretation certainly makes it sound more interesting but I can't remember enough of the Silmarillion to get into the right or wrong of it.

Anyway watched episode 3 for the second time and thought it was very good kept me interested all the way through. Looking forward to the next one so they've done their job so far.

Yeah, I watched ep 3 again last night and maybe I was just in the wrong mood first time round as I enjoyed it a lot more. All my first watches are with the subtitles on in English (for herself to follow along easily), and that can sometimes detract a bit.

Don't really know what to make of the opening sequence, strangely abstract. The little grains are ore prior to being melted down, is that it? And the snake type thing would represent the ore that will make Sauron's ring then?

Re The Silmarillion, the role of music in the creation myths, etc., and also what Amazon have access to; we saw Galadriel's brother fighting in a battle, but nothing of his face to face with Sauron, only the aftermath (her brother lost and died). That face to face, I think, involved singing in some measure. Probably the kind of thing that's very difficult to represent on screen in a compelling way (remark again the absence of Tom Bombadil from The Hobbit). 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/lotr-rings-of-power-opening-credits-explained/amp/

Missed like half those references but was on to something

Good read that. I think you were both on to something. Lots of links there that hopefully I won't waste the afternoon on too

Excellent episode, I thought. The opening scene was class. Who knows when we'll see it in full.

Cracking episode. Easily the best yet.

It's appeared on my dodgy box, but annoyingly the audio is missing.

Ye are all watching it with an Amazon subscription yeah?

Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 17, 2022, 07:14:02 AMIt's appeared on my dodgy box, but annoyingly the audio is missing.

Ye are all watching it with an Amazon subscription yeah?

I'm watching it on vojvodinanet.com

Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 17, 2022, 07:14:02 AMIt's appeared on my dodgy box, but annoyingly the audio is missing.

Worked fine on mine.

Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 17, 2022, 07:14:02 AMIt's appeared on my dodgy box, but annoyingly the audio is missing.

Ye are all watching it with an Amazon subscription yeah?

I got the subscription just for this series. Just for the proper HD quality.

It looks great, and it's not too bad so far. The High Elves aren't very convincing though, you'd expect them to be a bit more aloof and ethereal or something, bar the black lad (he's a wood elf though?) who seems to get it.

DIVERSITY DIVERSITY DIVERSITY and some not-so-great dialogue aside, it's a reasonable start (I haven't seen the third one yet).

Also, and this isn't just a TROP issue, why do they make these CGI monsters with teeth or tusks at weird angles and places rendering them totally useless, apart from 'ooooh so scary'? Just make the troll, don't over egg the pudding ye gimps.

Have you not seen ep3+4 yet? 4 is excellent. I'm almost in full agreement about the elves. Arondir is really the only one to nail the vibe right from the start. Elrond and Celebrimbor really just don't come across with that aloofness and grandeur that you'd expect, although I'm warming to Elrond a bit.

I'll watch 3 and 4 tonight.

The elves in the films were considerably better looking than the series too. Too many short haired wimps this time round :)

Maybe there is an ugly liberation movement I'm unaware of because the King and Elrond wouldn't get to  drop the paw as handily as you or I, know what I mean :)

Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 18, 2022, 09:28:27 AMToo many short haired wimps this time round :)

Think this could be it!

It's definitely the short hair. Was only chatting to a lad about that last night. I've gotten over it though

Late getting round to this episode, but it was excellent alright.

https://off-guardian.org/2022/09/20/review-the-rings-of-power/

Here's a fairly long and scathing review of the show so far that I've just read. Thankfully I didn't see it as this person did or I wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. Hard to disagree with some of the criticisms all the same. I also spotted some spelling errors in the review so marks are lost for that.

Quote from: astfgyl on September 20, 2022, 06:51:35 PMhttps://off-guardian.org/2022/09/20/review-the-rings-of-power/

Here's a fairly long and scathing review of the show so far that I've just read. Thankfully I didn't see it as this person did or I wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. Hard to disagree with some of the criticisms all the same. I also spotted some spelling errors in the review so marks are lost for that.

It's getting a lot of scathing reviews alright. Twats trying to look cool mostly. Its not amazing but it's a grand watch. The overeaction to it is ridiculous.

After the cash spent and the quality of the source material, anything short of amazing will be seen as a monumental failure.

Finally caught up on this. Honestly I can't see why it's getting scathing reviews. It's bloody gorgeous to look at. Genuinely big screen worthy visuals. The orcs look class too. I don't really care about the diversity aspect either as long as people play the characters well. My biggest peeve as some mentioned already is short haired elves!

Story wise, yes it's a bit slow but I think it's doing a fine job of world building and it seems like it's all about to kick off nicely. And it's not like the LotR trilogy was balls out action either. Plenty of slow going story telling there too.

Now to try and catch up on House of the Dragon and see if it can undo some of the ill will leave behind by the GoT finale!

Quote from: Ollkiller on September 20, 2022, 08:17:09 PM

Quote from: astfgyl on September 20, 2022, 06:51:35 PMhttps://off-guardian.org/2022/09/20/review-the-rings-of-power/

Here's a fairly long and scathing review of the show so far that I've just read. Thankfully I didn't see it as this person did or I wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. Hard to disagree with some of the criticisms all the same. I also spotted some spelling errors in the review so marks are lost for that.

It's getting a lot of scathing reviews alright. Twats trying to look cool mostly. Its not amazing but it's a grand watch. The overeaction to it is ridiculous.

That's the first thing I've read about it other than what was linked earlier here about the opening sequence. I can see that there is something in what the reviewer is saying but I can also see what I'm looking at and enjoying, and the evidence of the eyes and ears always trumps what it is one is being told to think so I obviously disagree with them when it comes down to it even if the criticisms are somewhat valid for someone who wishes to go down such a road.

I'm looking forward to the next episode anyway

He's heavy handed in his review alright and he's a bit blinded to the good stuff, and there really is some great stuff there, but I can appreciate where he's coming from.

14 year old me wants to love this series dearly. I was probably 12 or 13 when I first read LOTR in the early 90's, and back then it was unfathomable that the books could ever be brought to life on the big screen (nevermind a tv series). We're 5 episodes in and I'm getting bored. That could be down to my own age, cynicism etc but this is really dragging at a snail's pace. There's nothing wrong with a bit of exposition etc but the acting and characters need to be strong enough to carry it, and they're not.

I fell asleep half way through last night's episode. Too much cliché, and the lack of focus on the tone of the dialogue is getting annoying. It's high register one moment, and without warning it's Americanism ridden TV pish.

The scene with the elf and the lads trying to cut her...I'm sure they were slapping each other's backs in the break room after filming the scene but it's so cringe.

I'll give it a bit of leeway as it hasn't been bad up to this point (tiny villages with Chinese, African and aboriginal Aussies wtf is this aside), but come on boyz. Take a few lines of ching and get the party started.

Yep, was struggling to keep the eyes open last night when I watched it (admittedly after a long day of minding the kids, but whatever..). There's something a bit off about the whole thing. Just to be clear, the diversity thing isn't a massive issue (yes, we've all read the memes...if you can accept the existence of a dragon or troll, but can't cope with a few black actors in a fantasy series, then the problem IS YOU yadda yadda) but fuck me, like what's the story with Numenor, mixed race queen with white auld lad, Isildur appears to be a young Nuno Gomez...and then the harfoots are a bunch of black Irish folk complete with bullshit diddly-aye repertoire of maudlin sing-songs...what the utter fuck is going on here?

My issue is not having black or any other hue of actor. It's the insistence on having small, primitive villages being perfectly and harmoniously multicultural. Make all the Harfoots black Irish (huh ho!) or all the numenorians Chinese or whatever, nobody would be perturbed.

I'm not too bothered by the Irish accents, east end Londoners get the short end of the stick with villainous orc accents among others.

Yer wan who is in love with the smouldering black elf seems to have had an affair with Jake the Muss and he decided it was time for a quick exit. It's mad.

C'mon lads ye are all after reading the review.

I've read a few reviews by now, some absolutely glowing and others not so kind. As I said, I want to like this. I was on board by episode two but the last two have been an absolute slog to get through.

Another good episode, plenty of great moments, especially the telling of the mithril legend. Maybe watch the next episode before your glass of hot milk rather than after if you're getting sleepy.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/house-of-the-dragon-rings-of-power-nielsen-streaming-ratings-viewers-1235388100/

The analysis in the article is a bit junior cert level, but anyway, based on the viewership for the first two eps at least, the investment is paying off so far. It'll be viewership for later episodes that'll be more telling though.

6.15am wake up calls are killing my night time viewing. Hopefully I can blast through both eps over the weekend.

Now that was more like it. Finally felt like the slow build up is beginning to pay off. Great episode.

That was quality. Qua-li-ty.

Ep5 was good. The mithril story was very cool. I'd love to delve deeper and find that that's there in the lore but I doubt it is, so I won't. Things took off nicely in ep6. They did a good job of explaining the origins of orcs. Not sure about the Adar killing Sauron angle. Is it some sort of misdirection or something they might go into further down the line? I like how they're able to reference Morgoth to give context to stuff. Was afraid they wouldn't be able to mention that material. Curious to see where they'll go after that cliffhanger.

The lad playing Adar is doing a great job.

I hope the intensity can be kept up, that episode was high octane.

That was fecking deadly. The score is sublime.

My prediction, based on telly dynamics in general, is a bit of a lull in episode 7 (notably including a return to see what the Harfoots and the Stranger are up to), and then... jesus, god knows what for the season finale!

Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 01, 2022, 03:48:28 PMThe lad playing Adar is doing a great job.

I hope the intensity can be kept up, that episode was high octane.

He also played Benjamin Stark of the nights watch in GOT. Good actor.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 02, 2022, 03:38:06 PMMy prediction, based on telly dynamics in general, is a bit of a lull in episode 7 (notably including a return to see what the Harfoots and the Stranger are up to), and then... jesus, god knows what for the season finale!

GoT went all out in the penultimate episode and set the scene for the following season in the finale but ya, the lulls seem to be in the odd numbered EPs. It's the kinda show I'll probably blitz again before S2 and probably subsequent seasons. Really enjoyed that with GoT and regret not doing it for other shows that would have benefitted from that approach.

Quote from: Ollkiller on October 02, 2022, 04:35:04 PM

Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 01, 2022, 03:48:28 PMThe lad playing Adar is doing a great job.

I hope the intensity can be kept up, that episode was high octane.

He also played Benjamin Stark of the nights watch in GOT. Good actor.

Well spotted. When I was a teenager I used to play warhammer (I know, I know!). He's a proper Dark Elf that lad.

Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 02, 2022, 05:52:25 PM

Quote from: Ollkiller on October 02, 2022, 04:35:04 PM

Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 01, 2022, 03:48:28 PMThe lad playing Adar is doing a great job.

I hope the intensity can be kept up, that episode was high octane.

He also played Benjamin Stark of the nights watch in GOT. Good actor.

Well spotted. When I was a teenager I used to play warhammer (I know, I know!). He's a proper Dark Elf that lad.

Nothing wrong with Warhammer.
Listening to black metal is sadder  ::)

Another good episode. The world of it has really started coming together, for me at any rate; felt properly immersed in it through this episode.

Yeah but how can anyone sympathise with Galadriel. What a badly cast fanny.

Is it really the casting or just the character as written you don't like? Yer wan Morfydd plays the character as written just fine. I don't have a problem with either dimension, tbh. For example, when Theo goes soft-eyed over her in episode 6, it makes absolute sense he would.

I hadn't had time during the week, so I actually went back and re-watched episode 6 after watching episode 7 last night. Really quality stuff, the set ups were put together great. Slow going is always worth the pay off when you get to a point where things from several episodes back suddenly make sense (the tunnels the orcs were digging, to give just one obvious example).

I don't get what's bad about galadriel, I think she's fine in it

Don't get the hate either for Gladriel. Latest episode not as good as episode 6 but still enjoyed it immensely. Hopefully the last episode is a cracker.

Yer wan Galadriel is gorgeous. Don't really have any issue with how the character is written.

So the final episode? Yeah, very good and the season definitely improved as it went on. I don't think I'd be in any rush to watch the first few episodes again though. Definitely looking forward to the next season. Thought the forging of the rings was a bit rushed though, considering how central it is to the whole story.

Bit of a rushed episode overall alright. I'm surprised they didn't make more of a spectacle of it and half a 90 or 120 minute ep for the finale, which would have allowed a more cinematic unfolding of where they wanted to get to by the end of S1. I think the run of episodes 6 through 8 will make for a decent epic watch though, some time over the next couple of weeks.

Quote from: John Kimble on October 14, 2022, 10:45:33 PMThought the forging of the rings was a bit rushed though, considering how central it is to the whole story.

Rushed yes but also completely nonsensical. The whole point of the rings was that Sauron thoroughly deceived everyone by helping Celebrimbor craft the 7 rings and the 9 rings. He then left and Celebrimbor crafted the 3 Elven rings. There were seen as great gifts.  Nobody knew of the grave peril of them until Sauron crafted the One Ring in Mount Doom and used it to exert his influence over the lesser rings.

Here Galadriel figures out it's Sauron while he's in the middle of helping to figure out how to craft the mithril rings and finally faced with the enemy she hunted for a millennium proceeds to do fuck all. Why would she allow the rings to be created after seeing that the enemy she views as the gravest threat of all was so keen on having them made?? Who's going to make the other 16 rings or will that be cheaply retconned in next season?

There's still plenty potential for a great show with the war against Sauron but I feel the writers dropped the ball big time here.

Head scratcher of an episode, mainly for the reasons described above.

'I am good'. Jaysus, the cringe.

Indeed, changing the whole concept of the forging of the rings is a head scratcher and I'm surprised they did it, given how precious (!) the Tolkien estate are about the source material. As for Galadriel, her character's improved/grown on me as the series progressed, but yeah - oh, so you're my mortal enemy... well, I have a nice shiny ring now so off you go. Odd.

Still, enjoyable overall, the last three episodes have been well worth the wait/hype.

It's entertaining enough, I agree.

I've given up pointing out the Chinese hobbits to the Mrs and whinging, just drink the soma instead.

Nobody's asking for it, but I'm giving, since I watched 2nd half of final episode again last night as herself was fighting to stay awake first time round and wanted to get it all. As has happened before, enjoyed it more on second watch. So, at the end of this season, what I like most about Rings of Power is that it feels fantastical in the way fantasy felt as a child, including a little bit but not too silly here and there, just as The Hobbit and LOTR (books) were also silly from time to time (Tom Bombadil, all the festive songs...). Fans have gotten too serious about Tolkien, forgetting that in the works he decided were ready for the broad public (i.e. not The Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales or any of that more 'adult' stuff Christopher Tolkien ended up getting so 'precious' about), there was plenty of stuff aimed at audiences of all ages, absolutely including children (an audience Game of Thrones, for example, doesn't have to worry about). In that sense, you need at times to be able to watch with the eyes of a 10 or 12 year old, and clearly that is a capacity that gets crushed as cynicism increases. I think the Middle Earth universe they've created is properly, and as it should be, wonder-ful.

Beyond that, regarding breaches with canon, etc., I'm happy enough for there to be alternate versions, just as there are alternate narratives in all genuine mythologies, Greek, Roman, Norse, etc. Did the Greeks of 500BC give Aesclepius a hard time because his Prometheus wasn't like Hesiod's? The answer is, nobody today cares, because it's the fact we have both that fleshes out the full scope of the mythology. Tolkien was more than happy to have ambiguity in the mythology he was creating. In fact, in a letter, he explained that this was why he had serious doubts about publishing The Silmarillion (and, recall, he never did; Christopher Tolkien published it posthumously); he feared crystallizing myths hinted at in the LotR would, quote, "destroy the magic" of them. A lot of the online bickering over canon is the strongest possible witness of the notion that the magic has indeed been destroyed for many people by the fact that they have all this stuff they call "canon" to point to.

Yeah but the Chinese hobbits though.

Haven't watched the finale yet myself will probably do so tonight but I've been reading another scathing review of it (whole season, not last ep) this morning and while I find myself agreeing with the criticisms in the reviews in general, I still find myself enjoying it all the way. Regarding the whole canon thing, I couldn't remember 3/4 of The Silmarillion so all that goes over my head and I just get to enjoy it for what it is which to me is a decent fantasy adventure and I agree with the shepherd's take on the general tone of it and how it's aimed at younger folks as well as the likes of me. Hoping nothing too stupid is done with the finale but it'd have to be pretty awful to spoil the general good vibes I'm getting from the show so far. Also I think the way the aesthetic is similar to Peter Jackson's vision of that world was a clever choice in helping it to feel like LOTR from the off.

Watched ep7 and 8 back to back. I like what they've done with the rings story, especially in the context of the mithril angle they've developed. I reckon they've put a bit of thought to how the rings are made and given out and it'll all come together in time.

Your man went from zero to Sauron way too quickly though. He should have spent a bit more time with the elves I think. Overall I think the simultaneous identity reveals was done really well. 

Quote from: astfgyl on September 20, 2022, 06:51:35 PMhttps://off-guardian.org/2022/09/20/review-the-rings-of-power/

Here's a fairly long and scathing review of the show so far that I've just read. Thankfully I didn't see it as this person did or I wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. Hard to disagree with some of the criticisms all the same. I also spotted some spelling errors in the review so marks are lost for that.

Tried to read this, now the season is over, couldn't make it to the end. Serious case of performative outrage wanking, his tiny wee rabid cock turgid from the smell of his own Tolkien knowledge farts. Nothing in the way of attention to his own word craft. Twitter is overflowing with better awful content than that  :laugh:

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 18, 2022, 12:37:01 AM

Quote from: astfgyl on September 20, 2022, 06:51:35 PMhttps://off-guardian.org/2022/09/20/review-the-rings-of-power/

Here's a fairly long and scathing review of the show so far that I've just read. Thankfully I didn't see it as this person did or I wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. Hard to disagree with some of the criticisms all the same. I also spotted some spelling errors in the review so marks are lost for that.

Tried to read this, now the season is over, couldn't make it to the end. Serious case of performative outrage wanking, his tiny wee rabid cock turgid from the smell of his own Tolkien knowledge farts. Nothing in the way of attention to his own word craft. Twitter is overflowing with better awful content than that  :laugh:

It's back to my last post really about how in spite of some seemingly valid criticisms, these bad reviews are just not working on me at all and I'm enjoying it immensely. I feel a lot of it is that it's so big that reviewers just want to knock it down. The other one I was reading made basically the same fist of it and equally doesn't really was with me. Actually just thinking I haven't read any of the good reviews either, might look at a couple if there are any

Some reviewers were going to give it a scalding no matter what. I hate the woke shite as much as the next fella but it's only window dressing to avoid the harpies shrieking in their ear holes.

It's grand.

It's just the current trend to knock the shit out of absolutely everything at the moment. Some of these people, especially on Youtube, are really fucking demented. They simply want clicks and views, end of story.

I know the show isn't perfect, but fuck it... So What!
As long as it's entertaining and somewhat decent, I'm OK with it.

I get as much entertainment out of the whingy moaning haters as I do from some shows, so it's a double win for me.   :abbath:

Ok final episode. The scene with the wizard by far the best part (except the "I'm good" ffs). Sauron is a sneaky fella. Hopefully for the next season they get actual scriptwriters.

Hmm, I think when it comes to fantasy etc, there needs to be a degree of acceptance that script-wise, you're probably not going to get the same degree of nuance from a giant, talking tree as say, Tony Soprano or Jimmy McNulty. That said, absolute clunkers like "the sea is always right" can get fucked.

'The sea is always right' reminded me of the kind of island mentality evoked by Synge. The sea as ultimate life providing and taking divinity (besides which, I'm pretty sure there is a god or demi-god of the sea in the lore). It was when we discover that Isildur's mother drowned in the sea that I got that vibe; he and Elendil have to accept her loss as part of an infallible divine plan. The sea giveth and the sea taketh away, blessed be the name of the sea. Or, the sea is always right. I think there must also be some kind of intended meaning related to what we know of Isildur's fate, i.e. that he will ultimately meet his doom in freshwater (one of the things we see depicted in the films too). Yeah, they could have found a more poetic way of turning the phrase, but what it means has been well utilized in the plot so far, imo.

Reminded me of the Iron Islands that whole "the sea is always right" thing. Pretty sure they had some similar mantra

Cannot for the life of me get into this. Would consider myself a big Tolkien fan too. Didn't have high hopes at first but didn't mind first two episodes but can't grasp it at all. Couldn't even say what episode I stopped at but it was early. May or may not finish it.

Can't say I'd blame you but I'd give everything from episode 6 (I think?) onwards another go. I probably wouldn't bother with the first few episodes again but it does pick up.

I'd say I'll watch the whole thing again in the run up to the second season, but I'm home alone this weekend and planning on watching eps 6-8 altogether, movie style.

Happened to stumble upon good breakdowns of each episode. They were made and uploaded as each episode was aired, so there is a little bit of the guy trying to predict where things might be going, but their main interest is the deep dive lore reference stuff. Encyclopedic is not the word. Silmarillic? I watched them all over a couple of days and twas enough to send me back to the beginning for an unscheduled rewatch of the whole first season. Think I'm enjoying this watch even more. Also, yer man isn't fawning over the show either; he's direct about the things he doesn't like, but is even-handed enough not to let that get in the way of fairly assessing what he sees as good. So, if any of you feel like absolutely geeking out, look no further:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVxMjL0MC2c

Yeah I'm due a rewatching of the thing around now, these might make it more interesting

4 episodes into the new season. Forgot how shite some of the accents are! Seems to be a lot of people ragging on it on the internet, but I'm enjoying it for what it is - fantasy entertainment!

All caught up now. Found the first three episodes excellent. Ep 2 the strongest so far in terms of character play, running themes of humility vs pride really nicely across the multiple arcs and in surprisingly subtle ways. As Kimble said, much better by comparison than S2 of House of the Dragon. Fourth episode was a bit weaker, primarily because of the Stoors. As with season 1, the story with the Stranger is decent, but the surrounding Harfoot story just doesn't really cut it, on several fronts.

Lots of very heavy hints being dropped that the Stranger is Gandalf, but I'm still kind of hoping that's not the case, and that maybe it'll be one of the Blue Wizards but somehow the name Gandalf remains among the Harfoots/Hobbits as lore which they will then later apply to 'Mithrandir' when he first encounters them. Or something like that.

Also, rewatching S1 in preparation but weighing up essentially everything Halbrand does from the get-go as either calculated plays or gambles for potential plays makes it well worth revisiting imo.

Forgot, a reminder for those who do want to totally nerd out: no better place than the Nerd of the Rings youtube channel. Breakdowns for each episode, mainly limited to narrative summary plus identification of visual and narrative references and nods to the legendarium:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZdHMEE6BIY

It's been alright so far, some absolutely excellent makeup fx/vfx. Think the only thing that wrecks my head is Celebrimbor as played the hell out of Shadow Of Mordor/War so I've that voice actors stuck in my head for him.

That was a great episode, loads of great references to LotR and the legendarium, plus no Harfoots! Hopefully they can find some way to enrich the Harfoot storyline to a similar level as the other arcs are operating at, or else just reduce it to a bare minimum and let the Stranger arc dominate that side of events. Presumably next week's episode will feature them more, so we'll see. Not hopeful though. Apart from the girl playing Poppy, pretty much the entire Harfoot cast have been poor actors from the beginning, with yer wan playing Nori having if anything gotten worse.

Harfoots aside, I'm cautiously confident that, in the other arcs, this season is building to something quite memorable.

Really good episode. They're kinda creating their own mythology in the making of the rings. Nothing wrong with that as there's little to base it off. This season is way better than S1.

Quote from: Emphyrio on September 13, 2024, 03:27:18 PMReally good episode. They're kinda creating their own mythology in the making of the rings. Nothing wrong with that as there's little to base it off. This season is way better than S1.

Aye this season is night and day to season 1. Think there's a major battle coming as well.

I've about 20 minutes left on the first episode of season 2 and so far it's boring the arse off me. Sounds like it's worth sticking with though going by the last handful of posts

With how well the season is going so far, I can only imagine the scene this plays over is going to be quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOfhZJax3NI

I wonder how deep into the "metaphysics" of Tolkien they're thinking of getting? Tom Bombadil's first line in the show was, "I see you found the goat!" Funny joke, rolling in with modern slang, hoho, Tom is the GOAT. But the slang reference could even run much deeper: Tom, as the 'Eldest' (in the books and as he reminds us several times in the episode), may well be the greatest of all time but that doesn't mean he's the greatest full-stop: other beings had existence before time; the Ainur/Valar/Maiar (of which the Stranger is presumably one, along with Sauron, Saruman, etc.) originated in the Timeless Halls, the dwelling place of Eru. "Time" doesn't start until, fittingly, the Music begins. It'll be interesting to see if they hint at any of this creation stuff in any way. Not sure to what extent they can though, with the ever present question of what they actually do and don't have the rights to.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 16, 2024, 09:25:32 AMI wonder how deep into the "metaphysics" of Tolkien they're thinking of getting? Tom Bombadil's first line in the show was, "I see you found the goat!" Funny joke, rolling in with modern slang, hoho, Tom is the GOAT. But the slang reference could even run much deeper: Tom, as the 'Eldest' (in the books and as he reminds us several times in the episode), may well be the greatest of all time but that doesn't mean he's the greatest full-stop: other beings had existence before time; the Ainur/Valar/Maiar (of which the Stranger is presumably one, along with Sauron, Saruman, etc.) originated in the Timeless Halls, the dwelling place of Eru. "Time" doesn't start until, fittingly, the Music begins. It'll be interesting to see if they hint at any of this creation stuff in any way. Not sure to what extent they can though, with the ever present question of what they actually do and don't have the rights to.

Interesting. While they don't have the rights to the First Age and before, because Tom Bombadil doesn't feature in The Silmarillion, they kinda have free rein to create a story for him. He's a character that isn't delved into too deeply in the books, from what I've read but I haven't read The History of Middle Earth books. I've always thought he was one of the Valar but this thing about being the oldest, could he actually be Eru Illuvatar?

The actor and writing for him, at this early stage, is spot on. Whimsical and profound in equal measure. Exactly the way I imagined him. 

I've come to think of him as kind of an epiphenomenon of the Music of the Ainur, maybe of the first theme specifically. Same, I think of the nameless things (Watcher in the Water, etc.) as similar epiphenomena maybe specifically of Melkor's discordances with the first theme. I can't remember exactly where, but I seem to remember hearing that Tolkien had said no (maybe in a letter?) to Tom being Eru Illuvatar... without ever going the step further to clarify exactly who/what he was.

But yeah, I was happy with the in-show portrayal too, having been really apprehensive since first hearing he was going to appear. Unimportant niggle just that maybe he seems slightly too concerned in the matters of Middle Earth compared to what we learn of him in the LotR (such as Gandalf saying the ring couldn't be given to him since he'd likely forget it or even throw it away in absent-mindedness).

That's an interesting theory alright. That Tolkien didn't go into too much detail about who he actually is could go one of two ways and I'm not sure which I'd prefer, to keep his origin a mystery or to go bold and commit to him being a Valar or some such. Him being Eru would probably be a stretch and fits with your second point. 

I think he intentionally left a lot of things up to interpretation... and even alternate tellings! In some of his letters he reminds people that the older tales are supposed to be "purely mythological", meaning that they're mythological in-universe as well, not to be taken as part of the "history" of Middle Earth. And even the stuff that is "history" is often told from the coloured perspective of a given character (which is how, for example, we get at least two in-universe versions of the story of how Bilbo found the ring). So I like the music of ainur theory for Tom and the nameless things, but it's just that; a theory. And I'd say Tolkien specifically knocking the "Tom as Eru" theory down is more down to his ultimate personal association of Eru with 'God Almighty' of Christianity. Or not!  :)

I might avoid those letters and keep the mystery!

This may only interest you Emphyrio, but anyone else feel free: just discovered these highly expert yet zero-cynicism post-episode analyses which have been running since S1. They're long but they seem to all be split into three distinct sections: thematic analysis (like global literary studies type stuff, how friendship, healing, mortality, etc., is explored), adaptation analysis (production analysis, personally found this least interesting in the one ep I've watched so far), and then a lore analysis, which in this first ep anyway was really great. That section starts at 58:20:
https://youtu.be/wEuYPD_VttE?si=SacVfQy8_7Us6hKN

Cool, I'll definitely give them a whirl.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 24, 2024, 11:29:37 AMThis may only interest you Emphyrio, but anyone else feel free: just discovered these highly expert yet zero-cynicism post-episode analyses which have been running since S1. They're long but they seem to all be split into three distinct sections: thematic analysis (like global literary studies type stuff, how friendship, healing, mortality, etc., is explored), adaptation analysis (production analysis, personally found this least interesting in the one ep I've watched so far), and then a lore analysis, which in this first ep anyway was really great. That section starts at 58:20:
https://youtu.be/wEuYPD_VttE?si=SacVfQy8_7Us6hKN

This chap is great. I'm not into the other one's bits but this fella really knows his stuff. He's very diplomatic in his "making peace" with what he considers mistakes on the part of the writers. The S2 uploads aren't broken up into segments, unfortunately, but that's a minor gripe.

Same as you, I generally skip through her bits or leave them play while I make tea haha, but am getting so much out of his takes, those I disagree with as much as those where I agree. I'm still only slowly chipping away at it, the S1 and S2 ones in parallel, bit by bit. It's hours and hours of content too, so it'll last me well beyond the season finale. Woop!

Found the battle scene in ep 7 a little bit disappointing after all the build up, but I'll see what I think of it on a rewatch when I go through the whole season this weekend or next. Looking forward to doing that.

I like the way he can tie in or justify what might seem outside reasonable bounds of the lore. He offers very interesting takes.

The battle, while good, was no Helm's Deep. Watching the season week to week kinda killed the momentum, so I'll do a rewatch too.

Haha, no it was no Helm's Deep, but on first watch it wasn't as good as the battles from S1 either.

I heard yer man's done similar analyses on The Hobbit movies which I must check out when I'm done with the RoP ones. If he can get me thinking differently about some of the worst choices made there, then I'll be really impressed  :laugh:

Even with his diplomatic manner, I don't see him being able to reconcile some of the liberties taken in The Hobbit!

Bought the originals (Peter Jackson) recently on DVD second hand , spent about less than 3 euros on them all and they kick seven shades of shire out of this series. #neverforget

If they're the extended ones then you got an especially sweet deal!

They're great movies, though I do sometimes wish they were a little darker/more serious. Did ye know that Excalibur grew out of what was originally a pitch for a LotR movie? Boorman's pitch didn't respect Tolkien's texts at all, but a faithful adaptation with a tone and visual vibe more like Excalibur would really be incredible. Though also not nearly so commercially successful  :laugh:

The Hobbit is a bad book compared to Lord Of The Rings.

The Hobbit films are 3 bad films compared to the 3 Lord Of The Rings films.

Not rocket science lads

I've posted it in this thread before (I think?), but the 4 hour fan edit of The Hobbit is pretty much as good as any of the LotR trilogy and basically how it should have been made in the first place. The reason the "trilogy" of films was awful has nothing to do with the book, which is a great children's fantasy book for the period, much better than the Narnia ones, say.

I must check out that fan edit. The series had no business being 3 movies long and the elf/dwarf romance was one of the worst things committed to film and is a real disservice to the book. There is a great movie within the trilogy, in service to the, obviously more juvenile, book.

The LotR trilogy, particularly the extended versions, are basically flawless in my eyes.

Here's the link for the fan edit again:
https://m4-studios.github.io/hobbitbookedit/

I see there's been another update since June so I might grab it again. Also, my hard-drive will thank me if I replace the 20GB one for the 8GB  :laugh:

Jubbly, will get a lash off that.

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 02, 2024, 08:26:14 AMI've posted it in this thread before (I think?), but the 4 hour fan edit of The Hobbit is pretty much as good as any of the LotR trilogy and basically how it should have been made in the first place. The reason the "trilogy" of films was awful has nothing to do with the book, which is a great children's fantasy book for the period, much better than the Narnia ones, say.

I do remember you mentioning that and I must get on to it. The stretching done to those films is ridiculous out of 300 odd pages to make over 9 hours of film out of it.

The reason the book never floated my boat is because I read LOTR first and sure it doesn't hold a candle to it. I might look upon it more fondly had I read them the other way round. When I eventually convince one of the kids to read them I'll get them to start with The Hobbit for definite

Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 01, 2024, 11:32:10 PMIf they're the extended ones then you got an especially sweet deal!

Yes! The extended ones. They were a christmas tradition back when. Very happy to reconnect with them. They have not dated and still look amazing.

Really good episode. Won't say much else yet.

Couldn't really have hoped for a better finale to a second season.

Haven't watched it yet but just saw a Forbes headline that labelled it as "A Truly Dreadful Finale"  :laugh:

I've enjoyed the Sauron and Adar storylines this season so I'm interested to see the finale.

Yer man who writes on the show for Forbes is a dzope though.

Can't say I've ever read any of their articles on the show. Season 1 finale was shite enough but I've high hopes for this one. My ideal finale would involve the Harfoots getting turfed into Mount Doom but that's probably asking too much  :laugh:

I felt they hit a lot of milestones/resolutions. It came across as a proper season finale.

That finale was deadly. Loads of great bits. The first 5 mins were my favourite. What an intro.

The first season was, in my opinion, not praiseworthy at all and I gave up on the new one after an episode and a half. I hear the dogs barking about what's coming but I'm reluctant to continue. Girl boss/DEI gripes aside, it's tedious and the acting is often pish.

What they spent the majority of the gigantic budget on eludes me.

I'd say they spent the majority of the budget on the last 2 episodes.

Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 06, 2024, 11:56:40 AMThe first season was, in my opinion, not praiseworthy at all and I gave up on the new one after an episode and a half. I hear the dogs barking about what's coming but I'm reluctant to continue. Girl boss/DEI gripes aside, it's tedious and the acting is often pish.

What they spent the majority of the gigantic budget on eludes me.

S2 is a big step up all round. Acting, canon and clever choices filling in things that are absent in the lore.

Think I'm home alone next weekend, will def aim to watch all of S2 again across, say, two 4 hour sittings. I still personally think S1 was great and that S2 is just a natural extension from it, drawing the viewer in more and feeling better as a result, but on the whole both seasons, imo, started strong, dipped a wee bit in the middle, and then ended really well.

Those last 2 episodes were bangers

Quote from: Giggles on October 06, 2024, 08:14:00 PMThose last 2 episodes were bangers

When I heard they were doing this show I had hoped for what the last 2 episodes delivered. Proper LOTR done well. Season 1 really tested my patience but it was world building. Season 2 I thoroughly enjoyed. Going to watch those last 2 again in a few days. So good.

Did you watch S1 just the once or a second time after? I found the entire Halbrand-Galabriel story so much better on a re-watch, post-reveal, which I think has to have been intended.

S1 has to be rewatched. The first time to get the grievances out of the way, the second time to enjoy on its own merits and to appreciate how the writing decisions make total sense heading into S2.

Elrond grew some kind of a pair of balls in season 2, as well.

Fuck me, he was some waste of screen time in season 1.
Pivotal to the overall plot, I know! But he just seemed to be in there to look wise and Elvish.

All the elves could've been replaced with planks of timber apart from Celembrimbor and even he had that one line that felt like it was hamfistedly jammed in. A far cry from the commanding presence Hugo Weaving had as Elrond.

I genuinely couldn't stand Weaving as Elrond when I first saw Fellowship  :laugh: It certainly didn't help that the Matrix was at a cultural climax at the time, but compared to how Elrond is described in the books, it felt to me, and sometimes still feels, a bit like Agent Smith strutting around a Rivendell simulation in an elf skin  :laugh:

Ha fair enough! I'll take Agent Elrond any day over the current crop of mopey cunts though  :laugh:

The elves were always a bit one dimensional though, even in the books if I remember. They're supposed to these immortal, otherworldly beings. Any complexity, character-wise, was to be found in the race of men...Boromir, Aragorn, Theoden etc, with their inner-conflicts and flaws. I actually have to give the new series credit for fleshing-out the elves somewhat. Celebrimor was obviously corrupted by the promise of power, and Arondir is very much driven by revenge.

I don't like the head on that Arondir cunt. Reminds me of Grey Worm from Game of Thrones, who I hated.

Robert Aramayo's natural accent is so incredibly unexpected, ee-bah-gum  :laugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQmQdZiVMnU

I was a bit slow to watch season 2 as I thought season one sucked but season 2 was excellent.

Just finished up a rewatch of season 2, 4 eps last night, 4 tonight. Fairly superb!

Someone dug up a few reaction screenshots from Tolkien forums back in 2001:
https://x.com/treebeardnerd/status/1846638963232063715

I've binged 6 episodes of this the last 2 evenings and I have to say I'm really enjoying it. It veers wildly between being pure shite and really good but the good is far outweighing the bad and I don't give a fuck about proper lore or any of that because I found the silmarillion book utterly impenetrable so for all I know it's pure canon but I'll likely never find out unless someone else tells me because fuck am I going back to that book.

Anyway only a couple left and tis decent entertainment

Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2024, 12:13:42 AMI've binged 6 episodes of this the last 2 evenings and I have to say I'm really enjoying it. It veers wildly between being pure shite and really good but the good is far outweighing the bad and I don't give a fuck about proper lore or any of that because I found the silmarillion book utterly impenetrable so for all I know it's pure canon but I'll likely never find out unless someone else tells me because fuck am I going back to that book.

Anyway only a couple left and tis decent entertainment

The last 2 episodes (if its season 2 you're on) are bangers.

Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2024, 12:13:42 AMIt veers wildly between being pure shite and really good

That's it in a nutshell. The good stuff is quality but given the mind boggling amount of money spent on this show there shouldn't be so many shite bits  :laugh:

Quote from: Ollkiller on November 15, 2024, 09:11:51 AM

Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2024, 12:13:42 AMI've binged 6 episodes of this the last 2 evenings and I have to say I'm really enjoying it. It veers wildly between being pure shite and really good but the good is far outweighing the bad and I don't give a fuck about proper lore or any of that because I found the silmarillion book utterly impenetrable so for all I know it's pure canon but I'll likely never find out unless someone else tells me because fuck am I going back to that book.

Anyway only a couple left and tis decent entertainment

The last 2 episodes (if its season 2 you're on) are bangers.

Aye it is season 2. Have stayed away from spoilers or at least can't remember if I did read any. Looking forward to it

Quote from: Born of Fire on November 15, 2024, 09:48:31 AM

Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2024, 12:13:42 AMIt veers wildly between being pure shite and really good

That's it in a nutshell. The good stuff is quality but given the mind boggling amount of money spent on this show there shouldn't be so many shite bits  :laugh:

Have to say season 2 has less shit bits than season 1 but yeah they're still there. Having not seen the end of season 2 yet, is it going on to a third? If so hopefully the upward trend will continue

Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2024, 02:10:09 PM

Quote from: Born of Fire on November 15, 2024, 09:48:31 AM

Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2024, 12:13:42 AMIt veers wildly between being pure shite and really good

That's it in a nutshell. The good stuff is quality but given the mind boggling amount of money spent on this show there shouldn't be so many shite bits  :laugh:

Have to say season 2 has less shit bits than season 1 but yeah they're still there. Having not seen the end of season 2 yet, is it going on to a third? If so hopefully the upward trend will continue

Supposedly a four season arc is planned.

Five afaik, or more specifically a 50 hour series across five seasons were the original terms of the contract. If the idea is for the grande finale of the show to revolve around Isildur's claiming of the ring and death (i.e. the stuff seen in the Prologue of Fellowship), then it's easy enough to see how they'll fill up three more seasons between where they're at now and that point. Don't know if it's what they'll do of course, but the entirety of season 5 could be taken up with the various stages of the War of the Last Alliance tbh.

Can see the day coming where I'll do a marathon of this, the Hobbit (maybe the cut version recommended on here though) and the LOTR trilogy.

It would probably be an ordeal but only one way to find out

Decent enough read here. Bits and pieces from Tolkien's various writings that give hints about what his views may have been on "canon" (a notion that didn't exist in its modern meaning in JRRT's own time). If you've followed discussions about this question over the last couple of years especially (or, as in my case, since 2001), then you'll know most of the extracts already, but it's a decent effort to bring them all together.
https://reactormag.com/tolkiens-precious-words-and-the-rise-of-canon-gatekeeping/

Got to the end of S2 last night. An absolute treat this last 2 episodes. Season as a whole pretty much shat on s1. Much better altogether. Will probably do a rewatch of the whole season tbh

Quote from: astfgyl on November 21, 2024, 01:57:11 PMGot to the end of S2 last night. An absolute treat this last 2 episodes. Season as a whole pretty much shat on s1. Much better altogether. Will probably do a rewatch of the whole season tbh

Aye s2 is light years ahead of s1.

S2 makes for a rewatch of S1 much better.

Started a rewatch from s1 last night. Only the first episode down with the young fellas but it's already better knowing what's coming down the line