Hi all,
In 2018, we released an album we really enjoyed making, Storklord - you can find it here https://molarbear.bandcamp.com/album/storklord (https://molarbear.bandcamp.com/album/storklord)
It was a complete labour of love, and we think we did alright for a random bunch of guys with no money who should have been past their best many years before.
It's been an odd couple of years, Covid has fucked so much of the local scene/industry, and I've been looking at how we've been affected as a band/very small business, particularly on social media - every band I've spoken to recently has said the same - whatever reach or engagement we've had previously is now in the toilet. I'm in my 40's, and don't particularly want what I consider to be an enjoyable hobby with mates to become an endless cycle of trying to meme our way to engagement to impress young'uns, I have no interest in that. Anyone else feeling the same?
Anyway, for the 17 people who like our output, I'm basically gonna redirect them here. Tbh most of them are probably here anyway. I keep seeing these "buy local this chrimbus, fuck amazon" ads, and I figure that has to apply across the board. I'm not one for posting much at the best of times but I'd much rather use a local forum to interact with people who might show a bit of interest, rather than fighting with an algorithm to keep in with a 17 year old who thought our latest video of Barra Best was class. I keep thinking about how I grew up with music, tape trading, absorbing music and lyrics. Those days are mostly gone now, but the least I can do is replicate the fact that a band just existed and I got to enjoy them. I think if Iron Maiden had have been writing to me every fortnight saying "lol check out Steve in his new leggings" or "who's the best guitarist, answer our poll", I'd have packed this all in years ago.
So yeah, hi, how's it going, hope these sounds find you well. Cheers for reading/listening, and hopefully when gigs are a thing again I'll see some of you about.
Also, new album in February, it's fucking class, basically a doom/punk version of Reign In Blood as written by Tears For Fears, much heft, you'll love it
Cheers
Andy
You have the right idea almost completely. Social Media, and the avenues of promoting tunes there, is absolutely ragged. There is practically no interaction, every post is stifled to death, the only option is constant aggressive marketing and I absolutely did not get into making music to market a fucking product, much like yourself I did it to make music. So yeah it is rotten to see the only route nowadays being FB and the like and getting zero traction and lost in the noise over there.
There's surely a cross post here for, or something worth considering related - is there a way of using this site effectively for it? The forum itself is great and there's a good crew here for tunes, maybe it would be worth revisiting the idea of using the main page or site to post the odd blurb or update about local bands releasing a few bits. I know there's not a lot of contributors and schedules are tight but making the front page more for releases or updates would be great. I mean obviously just running a general thread on this forum for your band anyway is a good idea and very welcome.
Also yeah I love your tunes but you knew that anyway lol
It's something of a hobby horse of mine to moan about social media and metal news websites as a means to promote bands. It's too much of everything in an endless spew and it's completely exhausting. It also has the opposite effect of generating interest for me these days. In fact, it has the exact opposite effect. Every single album that is coming out is the best thing that has ever been released. The hype has gone far beyond overload. I don't know what it means for bands that want to be active or 'make it', to be honest. I don't know how a band breaks through the noise anymore to get themselves noticed without a label behind them to direct them to people who are engaged with their roster, without having to sink to awful online promotional crap.
It might just be better to go the other way entirely, maintaining a very minimal online presence and generating a little buzz on your own somehow. How to do that, though, I'm not entirely sure.
I dunno but for me it shouldn't be about reaching loads of people and making it (whatever the fuck that even means nowadays)
Shouldn't it be about writing music you want to hear and not caring what anyone else thinks?
I know not many people give a shit about anything I release and I couldn't care less. Its all about writing music I'm satisfied with.
I fucking hate seeing bands constantly posting their shit online as well. Seems so desperate.
Just release it and if people like it great and if not then so what.
Yep. I agree. But there are bands who want to do stuff so for them it is a conundrum.
QuoteShouldn't it be about writing music you want to hear and not caring what anyone else thinks?
I know not many people give a shit about anything I release and I couldn't care less. Its all about writing music I'm satisfied with.
Exactly this man. It's been really interesting for me personally with this band just being relaxed about the direction we're going, and finding similar bands/people across the country who exist in that same space, John/Third Island being a classic case in point - I think we've done two shows with those guys now, and it's the little things that count - supporting each other with merch, playlists, or just chatting about gear or bands. That's just absolutely sound as fuck and makes the band experience for me.
I think what's most frustrating about social media is seeing that you could potentially have an audience of x, but your last post only reached 10% of that and even that you had to pay for the reach, and 90% of those reached have zero interest, because as mentioned, the market is fucking flooded. But yet if I want my band to get a shot at decent support slots, social media is absolutely a metric in achieving that. So the local scenes get stifled by bland shit - take a couple of the most recent support slots in Belfast. At The Drive In supported by Brand New Friend? Alice In Chains supported by Wynona Bleach? Bit of a joke really.
I don't want this to seem all Old Man Yells At Cloud, because it's genuinely not meant to be, more of a reflection on how I want to focus my efforts going forward. But aye, Facebook is a fucking melt
It might just be better to go the other way entirely, maintaining a very minimal online presence and generating a little buzz on your own somehow. How to do that, though, I'm not entirely sure.
I think Yurt are a great example of this. I'd never even heard of them before I spent 30 minutes with my jaw on the floor, just a phenomenal band to watch. I'll happily fanboy over their drummer for the rest of my life
Yeah, good example. I think it kind of makes bands a little more special if they are a bit aloof. Having a band rammed down your throat is a guaranteed way to get sick to death of them.
Ya the more I see bands posting shit the less likely I actually am to listen to them.
I find Bandcamp pretty good for just getting an update every now and then that "Band/Label you like has a new release next week". If they added a few extra bits such as tour dates, although that looks like it won't matter for a while, it'd be perfect for me. There's so much bollocks thrown up on Facebook just for the sake of having content
Definitely fair to say we've seen the best of the underground in terms of it being more "people" oriented as opposed to reaching as many likes and comments on a Facebook post which are meaningless really. I find content to be too much on social media as said above.
The reality is the average metal fan is in their late 30s and they stopped giving a flying fuck about local bands back when they were teenagers.
The only hope there is, is to be absolutely jaw droppingly brilliant and be willing to get in a van and slog it out across Europe. If you can do that, you might get a licensing deal for your music and make enough on Bandcamp to pay for a run of t shirts.
If all that is happening then social media works because you have an audience and content to post.
Without that, no one cares. And why should they? You're just another band looking for attention in a sea of thousands.
In some ways I agree with you and in others I would suggest, respectably, maybe your views are part of the issue
The reality is the average metal fan is in their late 30s and they stopped giving a flying fuck about local bands back when they were teenagers.
There are a number of studies showing that the human brain is most receptive to new music up to around 30 years old. This is nothing new. We know all this. As mentioned before, I'm in my 40s and this is a hobby. I have no desire to be a "rock star" and even less desire to sleep on floors across Europe. I paid good money for this quality mattress. My back appreciates it. It's a comfy fellow.
I think it's your perspective on this thats throwing me - my issue is that I'm recognising that THE most widely used promotional tool for all bands these days is strangling those without constant interaction and/or money. As most local bands have neither, you're effectively saying "I don't care about local bands because they're local and they don't have the content I want". You're absolutely entitled to your opinion of course, but every band is a local band to someone, and the majority of bands are affected in the exact same way. So really to me you're just burying your head in the sand to this bigger issue.
Just a quick point regarding the financial aspect of your point above. I'm not sure how much you gig or how good your merch game is, but you're suggesting that bands can't survive financially without going full slog or outside assistance in the form of licensing deals. We as a band don't gig a lot, we don't sell a huge amount of music, our merch game is OK. I operate entirely within our budget of £0 personal contribution. Despite playing 6ish gigs per year, and not really being most peoples cup of tea, we make enough money to fund regular new merch and pay for decent studio time with minimal impact to our personal bank accounts. We have a good reputation amongst the bands that know us and in many regards I am utterly content to continue at this level - it's great craic and we try to put a bit of positivety into everything we do. I know there are countless bands operating the same way we do. Are you suggesting that all of us are irrelevant somehow because we're not the next big thing, that we're not screaming for your attention?
If you're covering costs and keeping things ticking over then what's the issue? You're happy to keep it on a small scale so all that's missing from the picture seems to be the Facebook element but Facebook is bullshit anyway. Interaction on Facebook often means your friends clicking like on everything you post so the numbers are never accurate anyway. I say do away with Facebook as a promotional tool. As mentioned above, Bandcamp is your only man. Promote your band on whichever forums you use as they will be the ones where like-minded heads will be, otherwise why are you using them! Setting up 50 accounts on all sorts of different boards to spam is pointless, I think, not to mention kind of needy. Otherwise, it seems you're tipping along nicely at the level you are happy with.
I completely agree man - Bandcamp is the boy - and I am actually gonna wrap it up on this soon as I don't want people reading this to be all "Molarbear? Why he replied 4 times and we're not really sure what he was giving off about so fuck that band, I shall never listen to them again"
My original point was more about how I felt that as part of a local scene, in this Covid period, I wanted to utilise more local resources rather than rely on the big hitters. I do agree with what you're saying about FB being bullshit, but I still see it as a big part of how promoters take new bands on, and how they use FB impacts every aspect of the scene - me personally, I think I'd like to see the entire industry move away from FB in particular, but I know I'm just pissing in the wind with that one.
With regard to costs and ticking over - yeah that's all grand what you're saying but that was all based on pre-covid activity. Merch/album sales at gigs make up about 70% of our revenue, if we can't get out there and literally shove riffs into peoples faces, we're relying on 2 things - how we market when not playing live, and people being sound enough to keep following the band. FB has such potential, it should be ideal, but if they're throttling reach for smaller bands, the only way to get to people is to pay out money you don't have in order to get to the audience who have chosen to follow you anyway, or meme yourself into oblivion. It's the death of creativity at the behest of an algorithm. Bandcamp is perfect for so much but lacks the community aspect, and it's the community that drives the marketing potential.
As for post-covid gigging, for those local bands that are still active at the end of this, just a cursory glance at the bigger bands pages would suggest that when everything kicks off again, it's gonna be hard to get a look in, as every tour under the sun will be happening to try and reclaim lost revenue for those musicians who rely on touring and merch sales as a primary source of income, in a world where a lot of people won't have the disposable income that they did. So smaller bands will be relying on smaller venues... who probably won't exist anymore. As I said, this is part of a much bigger picture, and I genuinely see a return to DIY venues and local forums as a way of sustaining the local music scene.
A return to a more DIY, underground ethic sounds good to me. I know it's not really for everyone, but operating small and festering in obscurity is perfect for the type of stuff that I'm into. The professionalization (real word?) of the metal underground has become nothing short of repellent to me over the past number of years. It has resulted in a kind of standardization and blandification of things in my view. It has motivated me personally to go in the opposite direction but I get that that approach won't be viable or appealing to most bands. The fact that bandcamp is removed (to a degree) from a sense of community is good. I think that the comments section is irritating as fuck and should be removed. Just keep it purely about the songs.
I'm very in agreement with both of ye but do go a fair bit myself with the standard online promo stuff - the post on FB, the one on Instagram etc etc. I try my level best not to overdo it and keep enough presence to be found rather than push, but I enjoy having music heard as much as making it so have to do a certain amount. All said though, I much prefer posting here to lads I generally musically agree with, and absolutely love the community of bands a few of us have going on FB - local heads, chatting gear and albums in groups, no bullshit or licking holes, and obviously way more fun when gigs are running because you can sort of coordinate them.
Other side, I fuckin hate FB for all reasons earlier mentioned and just wish things like this place, bandcamp etc were more where it was at. A decent gig platform to move events and calenders off FB would be a serious help in moving away from it. Again it's a fine balance of course, and won't be fixed properly unless FB fails, but I guess we can do our best as bands to step back from it as much as possible.
Personally a fan of the Sadistik Exekution method of advertising your band
In terms of social media, the engagement model is strong and FB knows this and exploit it, so they p3lled up the drawbridge a long time ago.. It's a sea of noise but they don't care because that noise makes them money while the reach gets less and less. I do wonder how dominate FB will put in years to come as demographics influence and shift behaviours (kids not wanting to join fb as their parents are on it). Spotify CEO said it's not enough for artists anymore to make music every 3-4 years just shows you the mindset...they want us to feed the beast. We are not just in an age of music overload, it's information overload too. They want every band to add to the neverending mountain of stuff while they skim the cream off the top. As someone said, it can be about the music you love doing and being content with the level you are at...but if you want to push into the mainstream, is it worth selling your soul and adding to the noise? The music industry is a different beast to what it was even 10 years ago.
Interesting point about the pent up type demand/requirement for bands to get back to gigging asap to try recoup on the losses of the past year...surely there will just be way too many bands requiring this and fewer venues to cater for it? I mean...we are probably talking this time next year before things start going again? Can some survive until then? Anathema have called it a day, a band of that size cannot continue I wonder how many more will follow suit..
I do prefer bandcamp...more akin to going into a virtual shop and digging around. Also prefer forums like this. Less crowded and focused. I do think this forum would benefit from a proper front page with some rolling local content, few of us mentioned our willingness to contribute but the forum owner hasn't responded as of yet. I do think Metal Ireland shouldn't have been let disappear so suddenly like that, the amount of information I'd consider valuable (and hilarious) would have been worth saving imo and passing it onto someone (or a group) who would have kept it going. But for another thread perhaps.
This prob also deserves a separate thread but I think you touched on a good point when discussing metal Ireland going down. I know this isn't a problem for people still buying physical versions of stuff and the availability of physical. But I've definitely worry anout the posterity of digital media.
I don't know how many times I've lost a full collection of music with crashed laptops, lost phones etc. Even now with YouTube playlists the amount of videos that are dust in the wind due to deleted channels and the like. I know they are ways to mitagate this but there's always a few songs that are never thought of again as a result. Which I why I will purchase anything of importance but who now can say they physically own everything they want to here.
Then imagine that loss if Spotify was to go down, YouTube, bandcamp. These websites aren't around forever. Look at MySpace, that was the biggest resource for music for a few years. Not to say the music wouldn't appear on other sites but I'm sure there's plenty of bands were forgotten about after that.
So many valid points above it has to be said. Honestly, in my mid 30s and not wanting to sound like a dinosaur now, but I miss the way the scene was before social media became the norm. The sense of actual community was real!
I mean, it's grand having a platform to discuss music etc, but the buzz from word of mouth was exciting and is pretty much dead. Music for me is about being excited and I feel social media has somewhat taken that away. Everyone competing virtually is bullshit in my opinion
You're completely right but it's still possible to get that buzz, you just have to tune out from the hype machine. I've been more or less spending most of my time checking out 90s stuff that either didn't appeal to me then or that completely passed me by. The great thing about that is that the hype around those classic releases is justified and means that the albums are at least worth a listen, even if they might not exactly be to your taste. The wealth of great stuff from then that slipped through the cracks is phenomenal as well so you have a bottomless well of brilliant, interesting music to investigate that isn't being rammed down your throat from hipster websites. Winner all round 8)
Funny you should say that because I'm doing exactly that. Digging in to bands that I wasn't very interested in or that passed by the nerd radar. Also listening to more music that isn't metal, but the loyalty lies with the noise. They hype around bands these days is insufferable. Why is everthing the best album ever etc? Really have to ignore the social media and search for music which I don't mind really.
Social media is a pain in the arse, I can't tell you how sick I am of people spamming the christ out of me about their new releases etc, and I mean directly. Direct marketing, IE messaging people directly on FB or Insta etc, is really in vogue now and my DMs are filled with people I vaguely know trying to get me to participate in their campaign. Pre-save my new song, come to my online show, buy my t-shirt, vote for me in this competition etc etc. It feels a bit underhanded, like using a friendship, or even a vague friendship, against you to manipulate you into doing things for them because it's awkward to say no directly.
I've had some good success using FB and Insta ads and advertising. Make a little clip of the best part of your song and then choose your settings for who and where to send it to based on their interests and location. Then your little clip will appear in their newsfeed as they scroll by. If they like it enough they'll investigate further and click on your link. If they don't like it then they'll just scroll right by and you've barely even bothered them. Even for one Dollar/Pound/Euro you can get it in front of several hundred people who might be interested. If your stuff is good, you'll get some traction. It sucks to have to play the game that social media wants you to play, but it's a fairly quick, stress-free way to get your stuff in front of a few more potential fans.
Also agree that local forums are an awesome way to gain a few new fans, though it can very quickly turn into spamming when it's a group that focused.