Daniel Ek (the CEO of Spotify) has ruffled a lot of feathers with his rant about musicians needing to pump out music more often and complaining about their butt-hurt regarding money generated via his platform
I get there's fuck all money in streaming, but isn't he right? When you look at bands like Sabbath in their heyday they put out their first five stompers in about what, 2.5 years and toured the shit out of them.
Am I being naïve in thinking that 'back in the day' only the bigger bands made any money from record sales and that the majority of bands paid the bills via touring a new record? Some of the obscure stuff you can dig into on Spotify would've sold fuck all (if it had even secured a release) if we still had the same business model, so if they're putting a record out every three years and have a few thousand fans then yeah, no shit you won't make money from that.
I'm on can five of the evening so may be talking shite, but I recognise that consumption of most media has shifted to streaming, so is there some validity to what he's saying or is he a cunt?
https://www.stereogum.com/2093393/spotify-ceo-daniel-ek-streaming-income/news/?fbclid=IwAR3rDePUWn-a4CrmRs_nYqoc3wS71sn0vWHKY62H2Ku6ZbblIO6GpodatsE
I have no problem with streaming platforms but I personally like owning physical copies. Not saying that to get cool points but it's just what I am personally used to. I feel that that current culture represents the opposite of all that, i.e. digital is the 'way' and someone like me is close to being a caveman. Music enjoyment should encompass other formats too, all of it is as equally as vital as the next.
"Back in the day" labels invested in bands over a long term with a view to collecting profits on album three and four and on. Bands had access to great studios, skilled producers and engineers and, sometimes, A&R people who actually worked on artist development. It wasn't all cake and gravy, of course, but there was an investment from the business into the artist and their development.
Now, a band is expected to fund almost everything themselves and then hand over merch money too if they've signed up to something stupid. Spotify puts fuck all back into all but the most successful artists and relies on funds from people who listen to specialised music to fund it all. Fuck them. Fuck them into a pit full of shite and set it on fire.
Spotify seems like a con for small bands but isn't there something paradoxical in playing underground metal and having an underground ethos (mostly DIY activity with bands networking for themselves etc. ) and then handing your music over to Spotify to gain more exposure? Why give them your shit for free when you can just as easily stick your music on YouTube, get zero cash and free exposure? Does every underground metal band really need exposure on that level anyway? Would it not make better sense to try to target the specific audience that will understand what you're doing rather than put your album on Spotify for the crass masses to ignore? Probably a bit of an elitist attitude in certain people's eyes but I just don't really see what the benefit of this kind of contract has for a black, death or doom metal band. Tapes, CDs and vinyl till death.
Well I'm on the people side. Fuck Spotify. As said bands have to fund everything themselves now. That prick has made his living giving bands a pittance of revenue. He can get fucked.
Just saying fuck spotify while we're here.
Here's a potentially stupid question, (not using Spotify I don't know how it works), but people can go straight to the musicians themselves and say "Fuck Spotify" and circumvent them, or are you paying for the convenience of the platfiorm?
http://www.bandcamp.com :laugh:
Yeah, fuck Spotify. And agree with everything Andy said too. Bandcamp seems to have a much better ethos, and couple that with YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, whatever the fuck else...why do bands feel the need to use Spotify?
They'll never get a penny from me anyway; I had to open an account just to listen to ye lazy pricks playlists :P
I had tried to stand up for it to some degree before, for the ease of finding music, playlists etc, wrote it off as the necessary evil and have had a paid account for about a year now. But lately I've been weighing this up more and honestly, it was the playlist thread that sealed it - I can make playlists other ways that are significantly better.
I can't justify using it, even how it leads me to consume music is completely fucked. I barely even use it for proper music discovery anymore and that was one of the main reasons I moved to it. I own/owned about 3/4s of what I listen to on it anyway, either digitally or physically. I'm going back to bandcamp, vlc, and physical, and if I'm that stuck for something else I'll use mixcloud and youtube.
Bandcamp is the best digital platform, in my opinion. If you like it, then throw a few shackles to the band or buy some merch.
Bar playlists, I never understood the appeal to Spotify.
Bandcamp is a great resource.
I used bandcamp as main for everything for years - discovered the Hydra Head store on it around about 8 or 9 years ago and then fell into how lethal the whole site was for discovery - but only swapped to Spotify in the last year or so. I'm going right back to it. No site is better for music than it, in every sense. I do wish there was a way of building some sort of even simple playlist on it - even just queueing songs in your library would be perfect - it would kill off anyone's need for spotify.
Quote from: ochoill on August 01, 2020, 12:29:23 PM
I used bandcamp as main for everything for years - discovered the Hydra Head store on it around about 8 or 9 years ago and then fell into how lethal the whole site was for discovery - but only swapped to Spotify in the last year or so. I'm going right back to it. No site is better for music than it, in every sense. I do wish there was a way of building some sort of even simple playlist on it - even just queueing songs in your library would be perfect - it would kill off anyone's need for spotify.
Contact them with your suggestion. That's a great idea...
It's good the way it orients towards album listening though. While every other platform is feeding into the "the album is dead" narrative, Bandcamp encourages album creation and experiencing. Easy access lyrics and pages built around an aesthetic contribute to this also. It's really a resource for creators of music in that way, more than "just" for consumption.
I use it all the time.
Enjoy the syncing across devices so start listening on phone connected to bluetooth speaker and whilst sitting at laptop can skip or choose new album and all works perfectly.
Like having podcasts in there now too.
Great UI.
Massive catalogue. Someone(H) mentions X is playing Voodoo and you can check it out and pop along
So many people using it that you get embedded albums in album reviews. Also people tweeting links to playlists (often people who give out about it ha)
I use bandcamp too but never got into the buying digital for some reason, I buy vinyl and tshirts on bandcamp, have bought some digital, but maybe 10 albums over all the years using it.
Prior to COVID I'd catch a couple of gigs a week, so lately really feel I'm contributing very little to music, have bought some virtual gigs etc to help artists out, but I'm running out of space for tshirts at this stage.
Knowing nothing about the industry and how it works -> it's a shame the artists do so poorly out of something that basically nearly everyone loves.
What he's really getting at is killing the album, just like that Olaf guitar playing twat said in one of his videos; what they're saying is "don't record an album every three years...record a single every couple of months." That's how "content creation" is done, a continuous stream. People seem to be responding as if he's suggesting they make more music, but honestly it's about pure market mentality oriented product staggering. Killing the album format, which is of no use to Spotify or the kind of content consumption it aims for.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 01, 2020, 02:18:59 PM
What he's really getting at is killing the album, just like that Olaf guitar playing twat said in one of his videos; what they're saying is "don't record an album every three years...record a single every couple of months." That's how "content creation" is done, a continuous stream. People seem to be responding as if he's suggesting they make more music, but honestly it's about pure market mentality oriented product staggering. Killing the album format, which is of no use to Spotify or the kind of content consumption it aims for.
Ugh. That actually makes me feel sick to see the purposeful killing of the album format to sell music to people who don't even really like it.
He's got some neck on him trying to ride the artists he doesn't fairly pay into pumping out more albums for his platform.
Spotify's main achievement has been making it harder for artists to earn a living. Fuck it till it bleeds.
It's just down to bands to have a bit of cop on.
In many ways it has never been a better time to be in a (good) band. I think if you could get the most important part right i.e. the music and the vibe/look that you're about, which really is the hardest part, I think there's a massive potential audience out there for you and spotify only needs to be an element in your overall approach.
Youtube, instagram, all that stuff offers so many potential listeners that can be converted into customers. That all sounds very artificial but it doesn't have to be. You could be the next Nick Cave, but get the core part right and the options would be endless I believe. The problem is creating anything of any worth in the first place, but that's life I'm afraid.
The People vs Mr.Spotify round 2:
https://ra.co/news/76439
QuoteOn November 9th, Ek announced the [€100 million] investment into the British-German company, whose technology will initially be sold to the French, British and German militaries. As part of the deal, Ek is also joining Helsing's board.
Helsing says it will use "world-leading AI technology for defence and national security" to provide "information advantage for democratic governments" and "keep liberal democracies from harm."
To quote Bo Burnham, "There it is again, that funny feeling."
The photo they've used there is too flattering. I prefer the one on wiki:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Daniel_Ek_%28Interview%29_%28cropped%29.jpg)
Darragh from Invictus posted on Facebook a few years ago about the absolutely insulting amount of money bands get from streaming services. I'm talking cents here vs euros. Streaming is not my bag, but it's massively popular. Musicians can't really pull their stuff from Spotify as it risks getting completely left out in the cold.
True. It would be nice if people abandoned them en masse though. lol, yeah right. There are better options for artist compensation though, from a listener point of view I mean; Deezer, Qobuz, Bandcamp, all supposedly treat artists better. And haven't yet heavily invested in the military industrial complex.
I use Spotify quite a bit, especially in the car. Worth the money for convenience alone. I use Bandcamp as well but generally all I have on there are the downloads from buying through bands or labels Bandcamp sites.
Not sure if I would have any ethical issues with using Spotify from a band revenue point of view in most cases. If it's an underground band, are they really going to be relying on streams to make money or for the label to make money? It can be used well as a try before you buy tool
Chances are that most people will buy the LP or CD, or shirt. I can't see a scenario where fans would only stream the new Vomitor album, and not buy it on a physical format. Buying physical media goes hand in hand with listening to underground metal, and Spotify won't change that.
Yep, Spotify is an excellent service, moral qualms aside. My apartment does not have the space for giant LP collections, and as the boy says, it's perfect for the car (as long as you don't have shitty electrics like in a Citroen).
Used to jealously hoard my choons on physical format but short of renting space to put them in or buying a house outside the city, it's a necessary evil.
I understand that having a streaming service is a necessary evil, but is Spotify really the only option? (Genuine question, since I don't use one.) I know a few people who have jumped ship to Deezer or Qobuz or Tidal over the last year or two.
Bands are still allowing their music to be uploaded to Spotify anyway so if they're so vehemently opposed to same why aren't they boycotting?
Is there any benefit to the other three you mentioned though I wonder, other than just not being Spotify?
I mean one good thing about Spotify is that the library is absolutely enormous. Not omni, but close enough for most lads.
Qobuz is lossless audio quality and better artist compensation, but prob the smallest library (with "only" 72 million tracks).
Deezer also supposedly has better artist compensation, don't know specifics of the library though.
YouTube Music is a great extra from Premium, granted that's 11 quid a lot of people are unwilling to spend on principal.
Being an evil hater of various marginalised groups, I obviously don't have principals :)
Quote from: Caomhaoin on December 06, 2021, 12:09:25 PM
My apartment does not have the space for giant LP collections
I have all my Lps in flight cases. If I was caught for space they stack on top of each other handy enough.
I see there's something of a movement of artists taking all their music off the platform, God Speed You! Black Emperor being the latest I saw today. They've actually gone a step further and removed their music from all streaming platforms except Bandcamp.
King Gizzard was another big one. Mostly smaller artists in the grand scheme of it at the moment but still enough to make people at leas think about it for two seconds, finally.
From comment sections I see certain people seem to have swallowed the shit on Helsing's landing page though and seemingly are giving artists shit, saying this is one of the good weapons manufacturers, actually.
Like, the fucking state of this shit. https://helsing.ai
Nice website, modeled on the insert sequences from a Verhoeven dystopia :laugh:
Quote from: Blackout on December 06, 2021, 01:03:44 PMBands are still allowing their music to be uploaded to Spotify anyway so if they're so vehemently opposed to same why aren't they boycotting?
Possibly labels - I'd rather not have any band I've been in on there. but the Drainland stuff was uploaded by some crowd connected to Southern Lord and I'd have to argue with 2 labels and four or five former band members to get Vircolac removed. Labels effectively use streaming as advertising nowadays so they're loathe to jump ship from what's the biggest platform in the world right now.
Took my own current band's music off there, and it was a surprisingly large pain in the arse to do (thanks Distro Kid). Made absolutely no difference to a small band like us tbh, bandcamp has always been more our thing, and streaming was actually technically costing us money.
As a listener, I moved to Deezer a while back and I'm happy with it. Chose it because I could move playlists over automatically (mind you, it only transfers over 90-100 songs if you have a large playlist). Same selection, same quality, same price. There's plenty other options as a consumer so the whole "ah but I've all my music saved on spotify" isn't any excuse if you've an objection to this Ek cunt.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on August 19, 2025, 04:54:51 PMQuote from: Blackout on December 06, 2021, 01:03:44 PMBands are still allowing their music to be uploaded to Spotify anyway so if they're so vehemently opposed to same why aren't they boycotting?
Possibly labels - I'd rather not have any band I've been in on there. but the Drainland stuff was uploaded by some crowd connected to Southern Lord and I'd have to argue with 2 labels and four or five former band members to get Vircolac removed. Labels effectively use streaming as advertising nowadays so they're loathe to jump ship from what's the biggest platform in the world right now.
Took my own current band's music off there, and it was a surprisingly large pain in the arse to do (thanks Distro Kid). Made absolutely no difference to a small band like us tbh, bandcamp has always been more our thing, and streaming was actually technically costing us money.
As a listener, I moved to Deezer a while back and I'm happy with it. Chose it because I could move playlists over automatically (mind you, it only transfers over 90-100 songs if you have a large playlist). Same selection, same quality, same price. There's plenty other options as a consumer so the whole "ah but I've all my music saved on spotify" isn't any excuse if you've an objection to this Ek cunt.
I tried Tidal a while back but came back to Spotify. Tidal was ok, but not a good for discovery. Spotify is good in the sense that if you're just getting into something like post-punk, for example, you can search post-punk and it will throw up a ton of playlists which serve as a great introduction to discovering bands in the genre. Tidal I found had barely anything on that front. I am definitely keeping my eye out for something else though as I would like to get off Spotify.
I never use Spotify. Maybe im a luddite but I just couldn't be arsed. I can listen to anything I need to on bandcamp and youtube.
Isn't it the Spotify cunt that's investing in drone AI tech for military use?
Somebody gave me free Spotify premium lately and it's grand. I still use Bandcamp for anything that's on there though
Quote from: jobrok1 on August 20, 2025, 12:14:59 PMIsn't it the Spotify cunt that's investing in drone AI tech for military use?
That's the one. He's been investing in military for years, but the latest announcement seems to have been a catalyst for Gizzard, GSY!BE and others.